“The goal of a lot of films used to be: if we just eliminate the bad guys, we win. But I think a more modern, realistic viewpoint is that no one’s good, no one’s evil, and the only real way we’re going to stop wars is to understand each other better, come together and empathize with them. And this film tried to take away the black and white and make it more gray. You even see the point of view of the bad guys and you start to understand what [the Empire] tried to do.” – Rogue One Director Gareth Edwards [via indiewire.com]
Because Nazis weren’t bad people, they were just misunderstood? I think I’ll take a pass on Rogue One.
I actually had somebody tell me that a couple of days ago… about Joachim Peiper… and the SS who committed the Malmedy and Ouradour sur Glaine massacres.
I grew up watching Monty Python… when stupidity and infantile cruelty were things to be mocked and despised.
Today the knife wielding islamist imbecile at OSU is a to be “sympathized with”.
Sure, as a once agnostic libertarian/progressive, I can “empathize” with those that commit mass murder against the helpless, the weak and the innocent. Once they have been de-humanized, then murdering them really isn’t murder. So were the Jews to many Germans, so go goes the thought about an un-born baby to those that support abortion, it is “just” a fetus after all. And murdering an infidel is still murder. But this is why the progressive and the fundamental islamics get along so well, for now, they both believe the ends justify the means, even mass murder.
But murder is still murder.
“Today the knife wielding islamist imbecile at OSU is a to be “sympathized with”.”
This is the real scary thing about the progs. Their sympathy likely comes from the fact that they are completely capable of performing the same acts, if given the opportunity. No one sympathizes for a monster unless they themselves are that monster. These kinds of people need watched.
Well, partly that. But more importantly, the reason they sympathize with those that are implacable and murderous enemies of traditional American values, ideals and freedoms, is because that is what they are.
Here is an explanation.
http://www.aish.com/sem/wtj/
I would say that the nazi leaders were evil, like most people who seek to control vast swaths of people through coercion and force, and yes I am inferring the vast majority of political class in this country. The further you get down the food chain the more you find people that are just trying to put food on the table and it’s easier to sit on the pot than to get off your duff and find yourself new work.
You don’t have to be evil yourself to do evil deeds. Conscripts act under duress and aren’t to blame for the actions of their overlords. However, the majority of the time the only way to stop the evil overlords is to kill their conscripts. So killing the conscripts is still stopping evil.
If the conscripts of the “OverLord” would take a chance and stand against him……Yes more than a few would die but the end result would be the “OverLord” would be Lording over now one anymore….Conscript or otherwise…..
Saddam Husein, Hitler, Stalin, Castro, Mao, Pol Pot…
These are just a few of the more recent and bigger examples that show the fallacy of this thinking.
Overlords have a really nasty habit of demonstrating, preemptively, what happens if their subjects try to overthrow them. They also have no problem with doing away with, one way or another, anyone who looks like they may become a leader in such an enterprise.
So, yes, “If the conscripts of the “OverLord” would take a chance and stand against him…”
If, brother, if. History shows any overlord worthy of the title stands very little chance of that actually happening.
Ok… The stupid… It burns… Not something I need first thing on a Monday morning with a massive hangover.
“Turn your enemies into friends.” only works if…
1. Your enemies didn’t actually want you dead.
2. You have compatible points of view, just disagree on implementation.
and / or
3. If you have capital grade directed energy weapons and apply said weapons directly to the face. (In “stun” mode, naturally.)
Massive hangover? Splains a lot.
I’m a strong believer in “friendship through superior firepower” look at America’s relationship with Japan. I mean seriously, we kicked their their asses so hard, their DESCENDANTS still have Stockholm Syndrome.
The Japanese are very open about being racist and not liking outsiders. Having had a Japanese friend just explain that to me in a Japanese bar, my follow up question was, “Then why do y’all like Americans and treat us so well?” The answer. “Because American is strong, no because America is the strongest country, so we like you.”
That’s it, that’s the core. All these ideas that we can be well-liked by being everybody’s friend are just wrong. Sure they appreciate it if we’re nice, but they like us, they work with us and they respect us because we’re not just a little, but a lot stronger than they are. Otherwise, they’d treat us the same way they treat all the other Asians.
As usual, you are totally wrong here. Any enemy can be turned into a friend. Some of them just have to be dead friends. Sometimes a lot of them.
Ah… The other form of “befriending”…
Or….Unfriending them?
“Please note that the Empire is a white supremacist (human) organization,” Rogue One writer Weitz tweeted to his followers, with co-writer Whitta adding: “Opposed by a multi-cultural group led by brave women.”
So, I guess my question, does the director quoted in this story understand and sympathize with white supremacist organizations, or is he just trying to repair the damage dealt by his writers trying to make the movie political?
#notallnazis
No tall nazis? Does that mean short nazis are ok? Like the leader of the Illinois nazis?
I hate Illinois nazis!
So … there are no women white supremicists? Ot are all aliens women, ala a Kirkiverse?
I’d just like to point out that the Empire was the one to outlaw slavery. Say what you will about Palpatine and Vader and the whole Alderon incident, but the education system and stock market were top notch and the promotion system in the storm trooper military was based on merit and not skin color.
Besides, we all know Alderaan was an inside job. Lasers can’t blow up planets.
High energy covalent photonic energy can’t melt planets.
#HECPECMP
#GUNGANSDIDIT
#ALDERAANTRUTHERS
Forgive me for combining geekdoms, but…
It could be blown-up by an African Death Star.
Stop, stop, you guys are killin’ me! LOL
Everyone knows the Death Star was an inside job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEPazLTGceI
https://youtu.be/xV7Ha3VDbzE
Only if it grips it by the husk.
That was so awesome.
And yet both sides exploited millions of intelligent, self-aware droid (i.e. slaves).
And what about Grand Admiral Thrawn – OK the Chis are humanoid, but they aren’t human (#BlueImperialLivesMatter).
“And yet both sides exploited millions”- the problem is that everyone has bought into the “light/dark” binary paradigm. Both are evil.
Fett was the good guy.
Slavery was outlawed in the Republic, but it’s reach wasn’t as far as the Empire’s and Tatooine was under the control of the Hutts (which is there was slavery on Tatooine).
And the dental plan was pretty good so I heard:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SignedUpForTheDental
Ummm you do realize that Storm Troopers are clones? They all had the exact same skin color so of course promotion was merit based, it was the only way to tell them apart.
That’s stupid. While the Death Star was primarily crewed by humans, Palpatine’s council was clearly composed of many different species. His master and his first apprentice weren’t human, as a Force adept he was able to speak other languages intuitively, and his Jedi extermination teams uncluded many different species, droids, and even included 3 disabled war vets (Grievous, Maul, and Vader.) Frankly, it’s like they don’t even know the source material and are just writing what they want.
“Frankly, it’s like they don’t even know the source material and are just writing what they want.”
Um, it’s fiction. Fantasy fiction, at that.
Of course they write what they want. So what if they use plot lines that don’t adhere to some other made-up plot lines? It’s ENTERTAINMENT. Nothing else.
It’s not like it’s Star Trek or anything important.
They are totally disregarding canon to turn Star Wars into white male republican space Nazis vs brave feminist women when that’s never been the story at all. It’s been dark side vs. light with the subtle hint that both sides were wrong all along (that whole bring balance to the force thing.) There’s a reason it’s almost always a grey Jedi that saves the day.
“a grey Jedi that saves the day.” No Jedi saves the day. Stop believing their lies!
You must have missed it when Disney officially declared a huge chunk of the expanded universe non-cannon.
No, B ‘s referring to stuff from the Prequel Trilogy and Clone Wars – and all that stuff is still canon. At least for now.
The ORIGINAL 1970s/1980s Trilogy had a purely human Empire, but since then the backstory stuff that’s been added has lots of aliens on the Empire’s side, even if no serving in uniform.
“3 disabled war vets (Grievous, Maul, and Vader.)”
Yep, I’m going to steal that line.
Just pointing out that:
Star Wars Holiday Special
. . . is canon that I am sure everyone wants to forget 🙂
Ah… “Life Day”… If ever there was an indicator that George Lucas needed to be punched in the face, repeatedly, it was that.
Khum-bayh-ya…….
Key phrase for me: what they tried to do. The government/ruling class/ your term here _always_ tries to do something. Their track records, on the other hand, aren’t very good. And yet, “they” still don’t get the message: stop trying to micromanage.
And, sadly, some people _are_ evil. We can pretend that they are “misunderstood”. We can wish or hashtag them away. Or, we can acknowledge that evil does exist and plan accordingly.
It only takes one person shooting in a 10,000 person crowd to break the silence. After that, it won’t matter that the other 9,999 people were quiet.
they have lost their way. movies are about escapism and entertainment. Reality is all around us , and the last thing we need or want when we try to escape it for a few hours is ambivalence and preaching. I thinks I will skip this one.
Has this fellow even seen the other movies? Especially in [SPOILER ALERT!] episode 3 where a nascent Darth Vader slaughters children?
Some cultures might not have found that evil. Most of the ones I’d want to live in, however, would.
Those were just extremely late term abortions. High Midichlorian counts are a birth defect that harms society and requires expensive treatments, schooling, and physical therapy for the child’s entire life. Studies have found 1 in 64 children in the Empire exhibit symptoms in the Force spectrum. Even with expensive treatment, these children will likely never be able to feel normal emotions like love, anger, hate, or empathy towards suffering. Best to catch it early and nip it in the bud.
*badumtish*
No one, you may have found that part evil, I found it to be hilarious & the highlight of the new trilogy.
I’m pretty sure that the Nazis and the Bielski brothers understood each other perfectly well.
The Bielskis and those whom they saved survived the war by understanding the Germans and their collaborators… and using that understanding to KILL them.
So he says this dribble on one hand and on the other his political philosophy says the NRA, gun owners with scary black rifles, and gun rights supporters are evil and want children to die.
Typical progressive elitism again.
I have no words to adequately describe my feelings on this nonsense.
“if we just eliminate the bad guys, we win. But I think a more modern, realistic viewpoint is that . . .” the evil POS liberal_progressive_communist_globalist [&] (D) will just continue to sh_t out another one, and there is a f load of the bastards walking past you every day that are willing to fund and vote for them, and they deserve a good jedi-style beating [a/k/a: a wet flip-flop beating], we’ll (hopefully) deal with them simply with elections or civil war in the alternative.
There fixed it.
Don’t you mean a “Three shoe beating?”
The “good” aren’t “perfect” and their “goodness” is a daily “struggle”, sometimes a “burden” and sometimes “fatal”.
Mind your thoughts.
I’m actually kind of interested to see where he’s going with this (and whether the movie actually fits with the director’s statements). If he’s simply saying that there could be some sympathetic characters within the Empire, and looking at their own struggles and problems, then I’m 100% OK with that. If, however, he’s going to try to make the Empire itself sympathetic, this movie will probably end up down with the prequels.
To put it another way, Valkyrie offers a fresh perspective on a familiar topic and adds shades of gray without coloring over the black and the white. Springtime for Hitler is simply bad taste.
Damn! I think Gareth Edwards is on to something! We should parachute drop him into Raqqa and have him explain all this to the Islamic Caliphate! Then, on to Damascus and Moscow to explain it to Assad and Putin, then, finally to Stockholm or Oslo to pick-up his Nobel Peace Prize!
First they drop sex scenes in movies and now they want to drop the audience rooting for the good guy? Is this the effing Twilight Zone…
Oh good grief.
Those who will be kind to the cruel will be cruel to the kind….The Talmud
Most blatant recent example…Obama overtures to Islamists while giving the back of his hand towards Israel.
While the original post was true nonsense, it’s nice to see that some of the other commenters here have a clue about the real evil; the Jedi and their manipulative religious extremism.
I hope that was sarcasm. Jedi’s don’t worship anything.
It’s rumored that Scorsese tried to get Lucas to turn “The Force” into a ‘religion’, and (luckily for everyone) Lucas said f u stupid.
But you can go “study” the “arts”. http://www.thesaberauthority.com/collections/academy
Not sarcasm at all. “Jedi’s don’t worship anything.” I said they were religious, not that there was something specific they worshiped. Even so, they fawn on about the “light side” all while forcefully brainwashing people. Watch the movies again, the Jedi constantly lie to achieve their own ends (“hey Luke, Vader killed your father, sell your car for cash so that you can pay for my broke ass to get off this planet and let’s go get that MF”-total BS). That’s not even getting into how they are all saprophytes that live off the tit of the republic, lying around in robes while supporting monarchies around the galaxy, or even how they abduct children from poor families to use as brainwashed servants, and who knows what else. Remember, Yoda likes ’em young.
Fond of children, I am, but a diddler, I am not.
Sure. Your mind tricks don’t work on me.
Sounds like jealousy.
Too old you are, become paduan you will not. ; )
I don’t know, I kinda agree, but they battle evil pretty well. It’s kinda like the CIA, they’re impressive, you’re happy that they are on your side, but, in the absence of the ‘other side’, they’re just fing dangerous and you shouldn’t turn your back on them.
My biggest draw to Star Wars was the Millenium Falcon. I want my own spaceship that has hyperdrive and laser cannons. I don’t think I am alone in that, or I should say, I sense that I am not alone in that. ; )
The story of STAR WARS was supposed to be about two droids. Can we agree that the droids are ok?
Joe R. – “but they battle evil pretty well” They battle WITH evil, not against it. They are evil themselves.
But yes, we can agree that the droids were ok. Which is, of course, why the Jedi had to create a clone army. Droids can’t be as easily manipulated with Jedi Mind Control as the genetically programed slave class the Jedi created. And yes, the Jedi created them. And I swear to God, if one of you saber lickers points out that Jedi Master Sifo-Dyas’ disgusting and immoral clone program was shunned by the Jedi (slave)Master council, I will flip my shit. I mean come on, I’m pretty sure that was old “never too young” Yoda on that troop transport leading the first wave of clone troopers into battle, right along next to the rest of the “Masters”. https://rborg42.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/yodatroopersgunship1.png
All I can say is, Thank God for Protocol 66. #liesthejeditoldme
I don’t know. I think the Wookie were relatively good at judging character and they had the benefit of living a looong time (like the donkey in Animal Farm). They were ~ ok with the Jedi. If you disagree with a Wookie, they might rip your arm off.
There’s too much bad in the world to keep track of, we don’t even really know what was in the garbage compactor, much less what its intentions were. Was it just a hungry animal, or was it a malicious sentient?
You strike at the Empire. . . The Empire Strikes Back.
Fun fact: both Master Sifu-Dyas and Count Dooku had to be renamed for the Portuguese language dub. Phonetically, the former sounds like Master Go F Yourself and the latter sounds like Count Of The Butthole.
That was intentional.
Cruel and baseless, your accusations are.
Off, they are pissing me!
Anyone paying attention would have seen this coming. Darth Vader was “redeemed” ’cause he killed the Emperor-after murdering a PLANET. Mitichlorians(sp?) were the FORCE. Not some quaint notion of GOD and Satan. No heaven and no hell. No real punishment for evildoing. I was less than impressed by last years retread…and have no desire to support THIS drivel…
Actually, Vader didn’t murder an entire planet, that was Grand Moff Tarkin. Vader was still the Emperors errand boy at this point and not really the second in command (Tarkin orders Vader around in A New Hope).
Willing accomplice son. Emphasis on willing and enthusiastically evil…
I don’t deny Vader’s evil, just pointing out that Tarkin made the decision to blow up Alderaan, and gave other people not named Vader the order to do so. Vader was too busy torturing information out of his daughter and trying to hunt down and murder his geriatric former mentor at that moment to really be involved in blowing up a planet…
Death Star’s don’t murder people, people who lived a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away do.
He still killed likely in the thousands including lots of children. But I’m sure Luke surpassed him in one fell swoop blowing up the Death Star.
Luke killed the thinly veiled empire Nazis. Complete with lobster helmets! Heil emperor…
“Luke killed the thinly veiled empire Nazis.” – Like hell he did. Never Forget it was Vader who killed the democratically elected Emperor.
I don’t remember Vader shooting the proton torpedoes into the the thermal exhaust port of Death Star I…
Don’t get me wrong though, I’ve long said the Imperial Navy is the navy for me.
Matt, seriously, Vader was helping Luke all along. Luke could have never made it all the way to the exhaust port without Vader’s help. Remember when Vader called off the other two Tie Fighters? He called off the guys that probably would have killed Skywalker and then somehow the best pilot and one of the most powerful force users in the galaxy totally missed the Falcon and ends up somehow escaping when everyone else does. Vader is the hero.
And yet even if I accept that argument, the fact of the matter is Luke is still the trigger man. The trigger man who with two torpedoes surpassed his father’s k/d ratio in one fell swoop.
Which was meaningless, as they were back at it just a few years later. It was Vader that killed the Emperor, and the Empire with it.
People like him are just too cowardly to planet their feet in the ground and take a stand for something. Too afraid to call something out as wrong. They trot out the “oh good and bad is subjective” argument to deflect from this cowardice every time.
The part that scares me;
“Apparently George Lucas agreed because, after screening “Rogue One” last week, he called Edwards to tell him he liked it”
This movie must be pure shit, then, because Lucas’ taste in movies (as evidenced by the execrable prequel trilogy) is absolute garbage.
If I made a movie, and George Lucas told me he liked it, I’d head back into the editing room, or possibly scrap the whole thing altogether.
St. Thomas Aquinas (1225-1274) defined the moral justification for war for us. It’s not about understanding the feelings of one’s opponents:
Principles of Just-War Theory
1. Last Resort
A just war can only be waged after all peaceful options are considered. The use of force can only be used as a last resort.
2. Legitimate Authority
A just war is waged by a legitimate authority. A war cannot be waged by individuals or groups that do not constitute the legitimate government.
3. Just Cause
A just war needs to be in response to a wrong suffered. Self-defense against an attack always constitutes a just war; however, the war needs to be fought with the objective to correct the inflicted wound.
4. Probability of Success
In order for a war to be just, there must be a rational possibility of success. A nation cannot enter into a war with a hopeless cause.
5. Right Intention
The pirmary objective of a just war is to re-establish peace. In particular, the peace after the war should excede the peace that would have succeeded without the use of force. The aim of the use of force must be justice.
6. Proportionality
The violence in a just war must be proportional to the casualties suffered. The nations involved in the war must avoid disproportionate military action and only use the amount of force absolutely necessary.
7. Civilian Casualties
The use of force must distinguish between the militia and civilians. Innocent citizens must never be the target of war; soldiers should always avoid killing civilians. The deaths of civilians are only justified when they are unaviodable victims of a military attack on a strategic target.
You want to reason w/ this?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0121766/mediaviewer/rm1293466368
Is this the same Rogue One author who’s twitter account is non-stop hatred of white people?
Passing on the movie. Attacking sexism and evil white men before a movie is even out says the staff knows its a turd and wants a nice excuse to their shareholders.
Jessica Rabbit may not have been bad; she was just drawn that way. Some of these people in the real world, though, are evil to the core and can’t be cured. Holding hands and singing doesn’t cut it.
Now, there’s something to be said about prevention and redirecting would-be militants/insurgents/terrorists into civilized endeavours. Entire countries have pulled that off before, but only after having had most of the worst of their element killed. People will behave as civilized human beings, but only after having exhausted all other possible options.
You are armed up. You have situational awareness. What’s the concern? Just above many responded that causes of gun violence weren’t guns. You gave a complete list. So are you going to shoot every 18-25 year old white male, Muslim appearing individual, black male? Why would you? You’re prepared if something goes down.
So if the 18-25 year old white male needs some listening to or outright mental health you’re going tactical? Hey the Nazis announced their intentions. This has to do with living beside your fellows who have not declared war on you or decided to mug you, blow up a school etc.
I don’t care what spin they put on it after the fact or what they thought when they were writing it or what their stated intent may have been. Did they make a good movie? If it’s an interesting story and the movie is fun to watch, then we’re good to go.
Philip Pullman is an atheist and a raving Marxist who apparently wrote his Golden Compass series as a sort of atheist credo in fictional form. But you know what? They were GREAT stories. His intent has almost nothing to do with my enjoyment of the story (unless his intent was to write a good story, which it clearly was), and I interpret it how *I* want. It’s not up to him.
Same with the Star Wars people. It’s not worth getting upset, unless their ideology produced an unwatchable movie. If it sucks, then we should be angry at them for screwing it up. But they don’t get to decide what their movie means. We — the viewers — do. It’s up to us, not them.
After reading this comments section, it’s pretty clear that some of you know your Star Wars. My question; what is the agenda of the Rebel Alliance? They fight the empire, sure, but do they turn around and enforce their own kind of tyranny? It’s happened in real life plenty of times.
I don’t care what snowflake, sjw, etcetera thoughts are in the heads of the people involved in this movie, I am going to see it anyway and enjoy the brief moment of Star Wars that doesn’t involve Jar Jar Binks and the horrid writing of George Lucas.
p.s. The idea that evil = misunderstood is laughable. Evil exists in this world, because some people just need to not exist. Some people can’t be negotiated with, can’t be understood as genuine human beings with common goals and needs, because some people are monsters; whatever created them becomes irrelevant the moment they take an innocent life. Until the snowflake community understands what the right has been advocating forever, life is tough so gear up, they will continue to be failures.
Al Swearengen knew it as he stated, “Pain or damage don’t end the world. Or despair or effing beatings. The world ends when you’re dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man… and give some back”.
I believe what your saying is that these folks DON’T have a clue of “What’s right, and what’s wrong! Lack of a moral code…”
This director is late to the game. The game TIE fighters probable did a better job exploring the side of the Empire, since you play as a TIE fighter pilot who makes his way up the ranks. You even play missions where you try to keep the peace between long warring societies, and end up fighting traitors more than then rebel alliance.
What is everyone here drinking now the “SITH KOLL-AID with the DNC ?!” Some “DARKSIDE SPIRIT COOKING with Vader, Palpatine, and Hillary Clinton!?
Anyhow, Just stopped by with a group of Klingons…Has anyone seen a lost pet Tribble…Goes by the name Fluffy !
Ahh, even here you find Star Wars Fanboys!
This YouTube video will take care of your Stars Wars yearnings !
https://youtu.be/bc2knqQqQrs