Whatever you may read on the intertubes, not everyone is a high speed, low drag tactical operator. They don’t walk around all day strapped with an optics-equipped, suppressor-ready pistol that packs 17+1 rounds of ammo in a drop leg holster (in addition to a couple of extra magazines).
Here in the real world, lots of people choose to buy guns that don’t intimidate them. Guns that are easy to load and easy to shoot. When they were standing at the gun counter, they only wanted to make sure they were buying something that would go ‘bang,’ not a pistol that a Navy SEAL might carry.
So yes, many of these people bought handguns chambered in .22LR for personal defense, either to carry or for home defense purposes.
We know…you’re horrified. I wouldn’t be caught dead carrying a pop gun like that! Shooting a bad guy with a rimfire round will only make him angry!
But the first rule of self-defense is…have a gun. The reality is, lots of people actually do rely on .22LR for personal defense. And if your personal defense gat is a .22, you’ll want to fill it with the best ammo for the job.
In light of that, back in January the people at Federal Premium introduced Punch 22 ammunition for short-barrel .22LR handguns.
As their web site notes . . .
Self-defense isn’t one size fits all. Punch 22 LR from Federal Premium uses a first-of-its-kind nickel-plated lead-core bullet pushed at maximum velocities to achieve the deepest penetration through short-barrel handguns. So, whether you want to carry a 22 LR pistol as a backup gun, don’t feel comfortable with centerfire pistols, or simply want to get more versatility from your rimfire, Punch makes the 22 LR cartridge a viable choice for the first time ever.
Our favorite part is the MSRP of $9.99 for a 50-round box. If only.
The people at Federal, who know a thing or two about the ammunition market, recognized that in a country of 100 million or so gun owners, many of them will be very content and sleep quite well at night owning a handgun that’s chambered in .22LR. Hence Punch 22.
As for the question of penetration . . .
Federal’s engineers tested Punch 29-grain 22 LR ammunition against three other small-caliber loads: 25 Auto 50-grain FMJs, 32 Auto 60-grain HPs, and 32 Auto 71-grain TMJs. The 25 Auto, 22 LR Punch and 32 Auto TMJ reached the FBI protocol minimum penetration threshold of 12 inches in 10 percent gel (the 32 Auto 60-grain round penetrated an average of 8.5 inches). Of the three loads that reached the minimum depth, only the 32 Auto out-penetrated 22 Punch.
So what about it? Do you own or carry a .22LR for personal defense? Know someone who does? Have you recovered yet from reading that there are people who do?
Whatever floats your boat…
Just keep it close range.
“Just keep it close range.”
Hope you don’t need to be reminded that just aout every case of legal DGU will be at “close range”, so…
I always thought that “Bullet Placement” was most important? A well placed CCI Stinger in the Eye Socket would allow the 40 grain bullet to do laps around the inside of the skull which should scramble anyone’s brain cells and stop them from continuing the fight?
Of course, there is some accuracy involved but that should come with practice.
An 8 shot revolver might be a better choice than a semiautomatic pistol.
slipping a mini-revolver in your pocket is an easy thing to do….last-ditch, sure…but better than nothing…
a good practice is the top three rounds in the clip be snake shot.they make a perp leak like a sieve.after that, mini-mag.hp’s for the rest of the clip..
Have you shot someone with snake shot?
I shot a raccoon with it at around 15 feet and it ran off. Snake shot wouldn’t cycle the slide on my ruger Mk3. I cant break a wine bottle with it from very far away either, like five feet.
What am I doing wrong?
Ha! 🙂 .22 shot shells are more like bugshot than snakeshot. They’ll barely penetrate a thick piece of paper, for hell’s sake. I guess maybe you could blind a snake if you shot it in the face…
Well that’s a rude thing to do to a trash panda. Unless you need a hat, I guess.
I’d reckon that coon would rather run off then get hammered with a 12gauge 😊
yep. They will not even break a thin book cover. Often called dust shot, they MAY kill a small rodent at 3 feet. At least in .22 LR.
Not a lot better in large calibers- but the new CCI #4 shot is MUCH better.
“Have you shot someone with snake shot?”
I’ve shot a sick-acting Armadillo in my yard with CCI .22lr “shotshells”. (shot in a blue plastic ‘bullet’).
The ‘dillo took an immediate dirt-nap… 🙂
I’m really interested in the range this ‘dillo was shot at.
I’ve seen armadillo shells, and no .22 shot I’ve seen would penetrate it at point blank range.
Head shot, perchance?
“I’m really interested in the range this ‘dillo was shot at.”
About 6 inches, head shot.
Instant results, the ‘dillo went into the trash barrel for next morning’s pickup…
I’m not sure I’d want to carry any clip-fed firearm for CCW in this day and age, and definitely not one filled with talcum-powder-esque snake shot rounds…
.22LR on the other hand? I’ve got no fundamental problem with it as a better-than-nothing defensive round. My operating principle is that if I wouldn’t want it pointed at me, then a bad guy probably wouldn’t want it pointed at him either.
napresto,
“… if I wouldn’t want it pointed at me, then a bad guy probably wouldn’t want it pointed at him either.”
You do realize that some bad guys could care less if you point a firearm at them, correct? For those people, it is “game on” plain and simple.
Now, having said that, I don’t believe that caliber matters to such people and I sincerely doubt that such a bad guy would examine/analyze your firearm closely enough to confidently determine that it was only .22 caliber.
I sense a substantial number of the above posters are reluctant to kill a perp who’s committing a crime against home, property or family members.
Those of use who’ve served in the U.S. military, and particularly in the infantry, don’t suffer from that disability.
Personally, I don’t brandish. Also, I don’t use small caliber weapons for defense / protection. And, most importantly in a confrontation with an armed perp who demonstrated aggression…I DON’T TALK.
Business IS BUSINESS.
@David Walters
Yes I’m very reluctant.
” Those of us that have served in the military ” blah blah blah
Business is Business
Rubber boots and a scoop shovel, it’s getting deep.
LOL , a cop racked a shotgunm in my face once, I swear that barrel looked big enough to crawl in. Certainly brought my cocky attitude down a couple notches.
I mean, sure I understand that some people are gonna PCP it up, and a .22 isn’t necessarily going to be the best option. I’m not claiming .22 is the be all end all, just that it’s better than no gun at all, and probably would bring an end to many (not all) bad situations of the most common variety if the need arose.
If I wanted something that would end literally any bad situation I can imagine, I’d carry a death star.
“I swear that barrel looked big enough to crawl in. Certainly brought my cocky attitude down a couple notches.”
I recall a country song about that…
(Snip)
Hank Williams Jr. – “Attitude Adjustment”
“She called the cops to take me in
And I said “You’ll never do it , Friend”.
And they just smiled and said “Oh yes we will!”.
Now sticks to the head and kicks to the shin
And several bites by ole Rin-Tin-Tin
And I couldn’t wait to get into that jail.
It was an attitude adjustment, Oh I went along peacefully
Attitude adjustment, They made me clearly see
So my head is black and my legs are blue
And both knee caps are bit clean through
It was an attitude adjustment
Made my whole life look brand new.
YES, SIR. I UNDERSTAND JUST FINE–PERFECTLY”
*snicker* 😉
a ruger Mk 2…10 shots in the mag plus one in the chamber…you can empty it so fast you can’t even count the rds…no wonder the mob likes it…
napresto,
I hear you and agree that a handgun chambered in .22 LR — for that matter any handgun in any caliber — is better than no firearm at all.
As for the “effectiveness” of a handgun chambered in .22 LR: I believe that something like greater than 90% of attackers will immediately break-off their attack if you produce any firearm at all — even without firing a shot. And of the less than 10% of attackers who continue their attack after you produce any firearm for self-defence — I want to say that at least half of them will immediately break-off their attack once you start shooting, regardless of your caliber and whether or not you land bullets on target.
The net result: having any handgun in any caliber means you are virtually guaranteed to prevail in something like 95% or more of attacks. Thus, a handgun chambered in .22 LR fits the bill nicely in that regard.
Thankfully, personal choice is a thing and people who want better odds of prevailing in the small minority of attacks where “bigger is better” (caliber) can choose to carry a larger caliber.
I’m not sure I know anyone who carries a Mauser Broomhandle, Mr Clip-fed-is-bad.
What .22lr takes a clip?
…and if you find one, does the clip go *ping* when it ejects?
My collection includes lots of 22s. None of them for self defense, only for fun and practice. Weakest chambering I’d be comfortable with as a carry or nightstand gun would be 380. I don’t own one, but have shot a few. Seems to be pretty low recoil for anyone that may have trouble with something more potent. However, if it was 22 or nothing, I’d be very happy to have a 22.
Beretta 21a for just one among many
If you shot the in a part of the body that is very vascular like the head.
Clip?????
You said, “a good practice is the top three rounds in the clip [sic] be snake shot.”
FYI, snakeshot for handguns won’t even penetrate clothing, not even thin clothing, so unless your opponent is a nudist, snakeshot will just bounce off their t-shirt.
Are you expecting to get attacked by nudists?!?
Blanks are much more dangerous than snakeshot, so you’d be better off giving advice to say “the top three rounds in the clip” be blanks, rather than snakeshot. It would still be terrible advice, but at least blanks are more deadly to the bad guy than snakeshot.
Shoot someone with a blank, and you’ll have more chance of injuring them (or even killing them) than if you shoot them with snakeshot.
Blanks can kill at short range, but snakeshot can’t even penetrate clothing.
And by the way, it’s magazine, not “clip”.
“…get attacked by nudists?!?”
When I was much younger (ie. 50’ish years ago) being “attacked” by a horde of lithe, beautiful, women nudists would’ve been a fantasy earning a retaliatory “uprising”…in the immortal words of John Paul Jones: I have not yet begun to fight!
A magazine is the area on a ship where ammunition is stored. Are you carrying an 8″ gun?
Using snake shot is relying on a psychological stop. Also someone attack you is going to do their best to make sure you don’t get off one shot much less the 4+ your scheme would require to incapacitate a determined attacker. Your gun fight fantasies are just that, fantasies.
Snake shot? That won’t even penetrate most clothing. Kinetic energy? The pellets carry pretty much none.
Anything beyond a manila envelope is probably not going to stop it.
Good news if you have mice, however. I’ve slain mice indoors with snake shot and it didn’t even scar the linoleum!
Ever actually tried your own advice? Because with all due respect, it’s absolutely terrible advice and could get you or someone else killed. Most semi auto’s, if not all, won’t cycle shotshells which is definitely not good for defense. Not to mention .22lr or even .22wmr shotshells are far worse than a solid for defense. You could even go as far as to say the shotshells are almost worthless for defense.
22 Pistol ? If you run Ice through your veins and in a Life Threatening Emergency you can always punch dead center – Go for it. Always-Well placed & Close, it will work. -> * * * * * *
* * *”But I’m not that cool ! Walmart once refused to sell me a members only Jacket” * * * * *
Somewhat better weapon than a rock.
NAA mini mag with critical defense works.
Heck, Bruce killed an alligator with one.
Saw that episode…..I thought the same thing….. was that a NAA mini revolver? why yes, yes it was….. cool….
When I’m away for a few days, my spouse usually keeps the TX-22 (with the PL-Mini 2 Valkyrie light) loaded with Aguila Interceptors on her nightstand. She shoots this combination well and with 16+1 she should be able to resolve any home invader’s personality defects.
Snake shot in a .22LR doesn’t cycle the action plus it’s only a tiny amount of #12 or #9 shot…classic example of a bad idea.
Old Guy in Montana,
“… she should be able to resolve any home invader’s personality defects.”
I like your spin on the classic notion of firearms and their integral role in “social work”.
Follow up from seeing promo video – Odd – OR – Planned???, 22 plinkster and Garand Thumb have 22 video’s out only a few days old. The Plinkster on this very ammo and Garand Thumb on .22 head shots from 7 yds (with stingers).
I will add, growing up on a farm, 3 families would get together for Butchering week. Big Hogs and Steers dropped with a 22 rifle with 22 longs (NOT long rifle) and completely processed and divided. Only once did I ever see a 2nd shot needed. Charlie missed the sweet spot.
Same here. We killed 2 hogs and 1 beef with 22 longs every year. Either in the middle of the forehead or behind the ear. Might even have taken a deer or few the same way. When times were tough and money was tight. Which was pretty much all the time. Never underestimate the usefulness of the 22 round. Just ask yourself. Would I want to be shot multiple times with one?
That’s the problem with a .22, shot placement is critical for drt’s.
Great reply.
I would go on to say that if a shooter doesn’t have control of his / her weapon to the extent that he can deliver a killing shot with a firearm of even a modest caliber, HE / SHE NEEDS MORE TRAINING!!!!!!!!!!!!
On TV the alligator hunters all use .22’s.
.22 mag or .17 mag
That’s why you don’t see any Rugers, unless bolt action.
I don’t watch the TV gator hunters, but I do have Single Sixes in both .22 Mag and .17 Mag.
Well, say what you may, as long as I can use it to get to my long gun, it will work fine. No one likes getting holes poked in them, and the .22 isn’t a slouch as I have killed hundreds of farm animals for butchering, albeit well placed shot. Oh, and I can carry 2 spare mags of .22 to one of my 9, with less weight to boot.
I sometimes carry my 6 inch barrel AMT .22 Automag as a backup… The noise from that thing is scary enough to some people…
I did at one point and I would again. Hell, I carry a 32acp on occasion.
My problem was never really ‘stopping power’ or whatever. It was a reliability concern.
Lance,
Reliability is a serious concern for someone who is relying exclusively on .22 LR for self-defense — especially in a semi-auto firearm. If a rimfire cartridge fails to ignite, which happens relatively often compared to center-fire cartridges, a semi-auto firearm becomes an inoperable brick until the defender manually operates the slide/bolt. If the same happens with a revolver, at least in that case the defender can simply pull the trigger again which is typically a much faster and much more reliable operation than having to manually operate the slide/bolt and chamber another cartridge.
Personally, I would only carry a semi-auto pistol chambered in .22 LR as a last resort if I cannot possibly operate anything else. (And I would advise the same to everyone else.)
Same here. I carry a beretta 21a in .25 acp+p as a backup gun to my p365xl or g19. 10 rounds of hot 35 grain hp is nothing to laugh at. Out of the beretta it matches my 10/22 carbine with standard velocity cci. Hoe many varmints and live stock have been killed with that? Plus, its center fire.
hi-standard double nine under the bar…looks meaner than it actually is…then again I once killed a large snake that I stepped on in the high grass with my sentinel..single snap shot to the head had that white belly rolling up under my feet….
A lot the of the elderly people that shot a range that I used to go to had .22 pistols for SD. They couldn’t handle the recoil of anything larger and were very fond of the CCI Mini-Mag .22 Long Rifle 40 Gr. Segmented Hollow Point. It breaks into 3 parts when it hits, creating 3 wound tracks.
It was fun hanging with the old guys and listening to the stories of when they had 1911s in Korea.
My summer carry when I’m wearing shorts and a T-shirt is a .380 TCP in a Desantis pocket sticky holster.
Loaded with .380+P XTPs it’s a bit snappy but with muzzle energy of 288 ft lbs, it packs a punch.
Before people say that I am going to blow up my Taurus I ran quite a bit of surplus ammo called Santa Barbara through it (I bought a case of it years ago for my 84FS) which is rated at 284 ft/lbs.
It was Spanish Military surplus and the boxes are marked September 1983.
About 200 rounds of that and 50 rounds of the .380+P XTPs through the TCP and not one hiccup.
I have 7 rounds and a 6 round backup magazine if needed.
I don’t feel out gunned and with some creative painting of the small sights, it’s pretty accurate out to about 20-25 feet. It looks like a wallet in my front right pocket. It’s not my M&P but it conceals very well.
That’s as about as small as I will go but a .22 could be in my future in about 40 years.
Shot placement is everything and a .22 to the heart makes you just as dead as a 9mm.
IL Sucks,
“Shot placement is everything and a .22 to the heart makes you just as dead as a 9mm.”
See my comment below. While your statement is absolutely true, it fails to convey the fact that larger calibers are more likely to incapacitate an attacker more quickly. For that reason alone, a person who wants the best odds of incapacitating an attacker as fast as possible should carry the largest caliber that he/she can shoot accurately.
uncommon_sense,
Read the story in the link below.
It’s based on a actual firefight.
I’m not trying to start a caliber war but it shows how shot placement is key.
IL Sucks,
No doubt about it: shot placement is hugely important.
Please note that the example which you listed is the exception, not the rule — and my statements convey what gives you the highest probability of incapacitating an attacker quickest.
Consider a heart shot. Which will incapacitate an attacker quicker? A .17-inch diameter hole (a .17 HMR bullet) or a 0.45-inch diameter hole (a .45 ACP bullet)? Clearly the bigger hole will drain blood more quickly than a smaller hole and reduce blood pressure to the point of unconsciousness faster.
Of course that requires that you place an accurate shot in the first place. Which brings us back to the oft stated mantra, “Shoot the largest caliber that you can shoot accurately.” If all you can handle is .22 LR, then you are stuck with it and make the best of it. If you can shoot 9mm Luger accurately and yet carry a .22 LR handgun, then you are unnecessarily reducing your probability of stopping an attacker as fast as possible.
Fortunately, the choice is yours — as well as the consequences of your choice.
The .380 TCP is my very casual summer carry. (sweat wicking shorts and a T-shirt) I usually carry a M&P.40 Compact 2.0 with HSTs. After a little sanding of the grips and back strap it’s a great EDC gun when wearing pants and a belt (IWB). They expand to about .75″.
As stated below you keep shooting until the threat is stopped, there are many who think if you shoot someone with say even a .357 they will go down after one shot. Life is not a John Wick movie. In that link the perp took 17 rounds of .45 Gold Dots to go down and he wasn’t hopped up on anything but adrenaline.
I never would carry a 22 or any rimfire for SD until I was too old to carry anything else.
I am not also a .40 snob. (“The 40 sucks” -Ya right) You get the velocity of a 9mm with the expansion of a .45. Plus I only lose two rounds over the 9mm version of the same gun so 14 rounds. That being said if you put 11 rounds of .22 into someones chest they are going to go down sooner or later but I don’t trust rimfire for SD.
I use a TCP for a pocket gun also. Orange on the front sight nub and ARX ammo in the handle does well for me.
I also am working a brace of Spectrums. That oughta be good for some laughs from some here! Got them nearly half price at rk guns awhile ago, why not try? One has been flawless with every load. The other choked on the last round of every mag, regardless of load or mag. I swapped parts back & forth a la Tuco until I cured that, and now both bang every time. Couple more boxes each, and, maybe.
IL Sucks,
Sounds like we have very similar thoughts on self-defense handguns/calibers.
My everyday carry is a Smith and Wesson M&P 40 (full-size) which I carry about 99.5% of the time that I am not in bed. On exceedingly rare occasions when I am engaged in strenuous activity and carrying my full-size handgun is incredibly difficult, I will carry a sub-compact semi-auto pistol chambered in .380 ACP in a pocket holster.
I feel the same way about the .40 S&W cartridge. You get most of the expansion of .45 ACP and most of the capacity of 9mm Luger — in a semi-auto handgun with a reasonable grip size.
CCI stingers…35 grain penta-point…have yet to find better…
A 10 round mag dump in the face and chest would make Jocko Willick cry for his momma!
“A 10 round mag dump in the face and chest would make Jocko Willick cry for his momma!”
Yeah, but Jocko isn’t going to stand there patiently while you’re shooting at him.
He’s gonna be be using that SEAL training to turn your light switch off *first*… 😉
I’m gonna wager cash that there are *very* few home invaders with SEAL training.
9mm is weak enough.
I’ll bite, what caliber is the “perfect” non-weak one?
This cop went to 9mm after 17 .45s were needed to end his firefight.
https://americanhandgunner.com/the-ayoob-files/the-lessons-of-tim-gramins/
It’s also a good read for uncommon_sense.
Bigger is not always better, shot placement is key.
The wife does. CCI Stingers do well too.
“So, whether you want to carry a 22 LR pistol as a backup gun, don’t feel comfortable with centerfire pistols, or simply want to get more versatility from your rimfire, Punch makes the 22 LR cartridge a viable choice for the first time ever.”
I’d add…if you can’t stand being charged a dollar a round for other calibers.
I CaRrY aN NAA mInI ReVoLvEr On A LaNyArD aROuNd mY FaT nEcK!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5iqYuFmzqg
yep…. you’re a g d mo ron….. you’ve just proved it to every reader here…..
He mocks what he does not understand.
Please, child, go back to your room and try to be good while adults are talking. We can humor your attempts at ‘cuteness’ for a short time, but they quickly become annoying.
eat a turd, turd.
Just because you’re a welfare recipient and can’t afford a mini revolver doesn’t mean it won’t work on your turd as s…
they used to be dirt cheap…what happened?
Laugh all you want about mouse pistols. However; the FBI’s detailed database on homicides of law enforcement officers documents the fact that a hell of a lot more cops have been murdered with .22 caliber pistols than have been killed with .50 BMG rifles or machineguns.
Elmer Fudd,
The .22 LR cartridge is just about as lethal as any other cartridge. The major difference, however, is that .22 LR is nowhere near as likely to incapacitate a person as quickly as much larger cartridges.
Whereas a good hit with a 9mm Luger platform may incapacitate someone within 60 seconds on average, the same hit with .22 LR might take four times (4x) longer. (Disclaimer: those numbers are intuitive guesstimates and plausible numbers to illustrate a point — they are not based on data.)
Sorry, but no.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6324289/
Just check with your police department for stats – I would bet that the majority of deaths by gunfire in our country – your county or state has been with .22, .25, or .32 caliber weapons.
rt66paul,
You could very well be correct. If your assertion is correct, the important question is why?
I am pretty confident that the answer would be simply because criminals carried those calibers over many more decades and a lot more often than larger calibers, not because those smaller calibers are somehow more lethal than larger calibers.
There is another interesting possibility as well. I can imagine that criminals would dismiss the potential lethality of such “puny” calibers and fail to seek medical attention in a timely manner. If that holds true, then the primary driving force of the lethality of those smaller calibers would be the failure of the person with the gunshot wound to promptly go to their nearest hospital.
wonder how many have seen that training video…where a mousy-looking little black guy took out a big, burly state trooper with a single shot from a mini under the armpit….
I do not carry a self-defense firearm chambered in .22 LR. If a revolver with a 10-pound double-action trigger was possible for .22 LR, I would consider that as a backup handgun. My understanding, though, is that the required double-action trigger force to reliably ignite rimfire rounds is quite high — on the order of 18 pounds or higher (or something like that — please correct me if I am wrong).
I only know one person who carries a snubbie revolver chambered in .22 LR for self-defense.
@u_s
You reminded me of a quote from a favorite movie…12 O’Clock High (1949, with Dean Jagger as Major Stovall)…Major Stovall : ” I was thinking, which is a thing a man should not do…” Soooo, removing my S&W 617 from the safe, verifying that it was unloaded, I placed my Lyman Trigger Gauge and tested the DA several times. This revolver has a very smooth DA, but, I never tested the poundage before. It consistently tripped the scale at #11.75 lbs. I have no desire to fiddle with a rimfire trigger that I already like to see if I can get it down to #10 (with reliable ignition). Prior experience with center-fire Smith revolvers leads me to believe that it could be easily done with a spring change (or two) and a bit of polishing.
Old Guy in Montana,
Well, a double-action trigger pull of 11.75 pounds is a pleasant surprise. And if I am not mistaken, that is about the same as the factory double-action trigger pull on many/most revolvers in centerfire calibers.
While it is fairly easy to reduce double-action trigger pull to lower numbers (even as low as eight pounds) with spring changes and polishing as you stated, I have heard that a fairly substantial trigger force is necessary to ensure reliable ignition of primers (in centerfire calibers) and rims (in rimfire calibers).
I am by no means an expert on the minimum trigger force necessary to ensure reliable ignition. The masses seem to think that nine pounds is about as low as you should go with centerfire ammunition. I have no idea if that is good information or what the corresponding number is with rimfire ammunition. Any thoughts?
No, no idea of the minimum poundage for reliable rimfire ignition…lots of variables.
Hmmm, may have to order an S&W Wolff spring kit from Brownell’s and see for myself. Give me a couple of weeks and we’ll see what happens.
Old Guy in Montana,
Oh, now that would be really useful information. I am excited to hear what you experience. Maybe get three different spring weights? Something like 8-pounds, 9-pounds, and 10-pounds?
Old-time S&W factory armorer, here.
As you surmise, S&W set/s the DA trigger pull at 13bs for reliability, but in more ways than one. The primary (pun intended) reason for that weight is that, over the years, it has been found to give the highest probability of setting off the hardest or most insensitive primer without poking holes in softer ones.
Secondly, the mainspring tension is not the only thing that makes the trigger-pull weight; The rebound-slide spring is equally critical, and in fact may do more to keep the pull weight high than the mainspring itself, as both are being tensioned/compressed at the same time, and the rebound spring is, for its size, ‘stronger’ for safety reasons.
These two springs work in concert. Change or modify one without the other, mess with the return rate of either, and you can quickly make the gun unreliable, or make it unsafe.
The easiest, cheapest, and least destructive way to make an S&W DA feel lighter and smoother, frankly, is to shoot the gun a lot, or dry-fire the gun a lot. When the gun ‘wears in,’ it will mellow all by itself, the DA pull will seem smoother and thus less ‘heavy,’ and you will have never had to pull the side-plate.
Of course, by this time, the gun is fairly close to ‘worn out,’ and you get to start over.
John in AK,
Thank you for the outstanding information and commentary!
I always wondered which/how much “reliable primer ignition” and “reducing unintentional discharge” factors played into heavy double-action trigger force.
@u_s
Found an assortment package of Wolff S&W rebound springs in one of my parts drawers. Replaced the 18# factory S&W rebound spring with a Wolff 15# spring last night. Polished the rebound slide and it’s pathway. The mainspring is the S&W factory original. 100,000 grit polished the bearing surfaces on the hammer. Did NOT touch the sear. Polished the hammer block bar and pathway. Applied Smooth Kote to all bearing surfaces and let it dry. Buffed tungsten disulfide micro-powder into the Smooth Koted surfaces. Reassembled, tested action with snap caps and retested with the Lyman trigger gauge. SA is a very clean 3.5 lbs and the DA is a smooth 10 lbs. I’ll test fire it later today and let you know how reliable it is with an assortment of .22LR brands.
@u_s
Back from the range. I shot 20 rounds of Federal blue box range pac 40 gr, 20 rounds of Winchester M*22 40 gr, 20 rounds of Aguila Super Extra 40 gr, 20 rounds of Aguila sub-sonic solid point 40 gr, 20 rounds of elderly CCI Mini-Mag 40gr, 10 rounds of CCI standard velocity 40 gr and 20 rounds of CCI CB 22 Shorts (just because they’re so much fun!). Not a single misfire in over 100 rounds!
I am happy with the results.
To partially answer your original question: it is easily possible to drop a S&W double action trigger pull down to 10 lbs on a rimfire (Model 617) and keep 100% reliability…why partially, because I don’t intend to continue to try and lower the DA because it reflects back on the SA and I don’t want that pull to be lower than the 3.5’ish pounds it is now. I’ll leave it to someone else to see how low they can get the DA pull on a Smith revolver. I’ll leave it to another TTAG reader to see how low they can get a Smith’s DA to reliably function.
Always found the super sonic crack of the .22WMR to be sharper, more uncomfortable a blast than proper centerfire defensive calibers.
My first handgun was an H&R 649, a sixshooter. Single/Double action .22LR or swap in the .22WMR cylinder. Kept it handy at home or in the truck and always wore it hiking and backpacking. At first I carried it with the .22LR cylinder, as that’s the ammo I had, killed snakes with plain old lead. Thought better of that and got me some .22 magnum JHP but the first time I shot a rattle snake with it the blast was downright painful, my ears hurt. Didn’t help it was in a tight passage of a desert canyon, steep rocky walls either side. Bad for the snake, made a mess of it alright. No fun for the hearing either.
I continued to carry my 649 (owned now forty years) loaded with .22 magnum for defense until I bought a 9mm. But I only fired .22 magnum loads for practice when wearing hearing protection.
If the .22 is all you can handle for whatever reason, okay so it beats a sharp stick. Ruger even has a model intended for just you folks:
https://ruger.com/micros/liteRack/
That Ruger is about the size of the TCP that I use for casual summer carry.
If you put 11 .22s into someones center mass, they will likely be in pretty bad shape.
It will do the trick if needed.
9 center mass. If that doesn’t work, 2 between the eyes.
a .22 nearly killed Reagan…of course those were reportedly “devastator” rds…exploding bullets are hard to come by these days….and we all know what happened to RFK…..
We don’t carry it in CCW pistols for self-defense (don’t even own any .22 pistols…need to remedy that), but .22 lr is definitely part of the home defense plan.
It’s not the go-to, but the women in the household are more comfy with our .22 rifles than the bigger guns, and we’ve got a stash of CCI Velocitors ready to go that should do a fine job of ruining any goblin’s day.
You sound one of those illegal aliens with 5 families in the same apartment….. nice…. glad to hear how all the people in your “household” don’t approve of .22LR….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5iqYuFmzqg
So you did not read the post you just went for the snarky retort.
Goody for you.
I often read ttag comments at my desk which is immediately next to my RN nurse wife’s desk where she does her nurse consulting work.
I break out in open laughter so often she thinks I’m reading comedy.
I had to tell her that she was right, TTAG comment sections are often the funniest things I read all day.
The banter here is absolutely hilarious…gun guys. Never cease with your sense of humor.
I’ve taken bigger game with a .22 on two occasions – one of them being with a lead tipped sub-sonic. My brother carries an SR-22 daily. I may start carrying my short Buckmark just for fun. Like one commenter said, it may help you get to your long gun (which ain’t a .22). My first ever paying job was that of an armadillo hunter on a big ranch in Texas. Anyway, the little .22LR and I go way back. I’m a believer.
sure mortimer….. whatever you say… we all know your “long gun” is a ruger 10/22….. you know… the one your dad lets you carry around the chicken coup…. to keep the roosters at bay…
So who piddled in your shoe this morning?
The Ruger 10/22 is exceptional for small game. Mine is over fifty years old and still a fun and accurate enough shooter for small game. If I did not have better guns in larger calibers for self defense, I would at least see my Ruger 10/22 as a solidly dependable option.
Had a problem with my aging Remington 597 of stove piping, even after conscientious cleaning and lubing. CCI’s solved that problem…without an armorer’s worry.
Maybe the ejector needs work. But not for a while with CCI’s ammo.
Oh, rifle was zeroed with cheap Federal ammo. It needed re-zeroing with CCI’s.
wt…… uh ok…… not sure how ANY of that pertains to the conversation but…. ok….
sounds like a real piece o garbage that needs retiring….js
remember shooting .22’s in competition…a .22 caliber bullet in a .22 caliber hole at 50 feet…challenging, but possible…and an absolute necessity in the prone position if you want to win…
Gosh, here’s an example of a real piece of garbage commenting on somebody’s older gun being a real piece of garbage.
What are the odds?
Never anything less than 9mm for me. Never
Right on.
You can carry whatever you like (for those that can carry). If you can’t pull it out and use it (effectively), then it is a liability.
My question is…
If you can’t personally handle anything bigger than .22lr then how do you expect to be able to effectively handle a life and death defensive situation? If you can actually do that then fine. But I don’t believe most people could.
Agreed.
I carry a .22 WMR when around people’s dogs in otherwise non-threatening circumstances. If I had a nickel every time I heard “he don’t bite” from some wishful person with a snarling animal… you are already well past my yellow threshold, headed toward red.
You’re quite a man. Going to shoot someone’s dog that nips you tough guy? Grow a pair.
Yes, and I’m more concerned with my toddler than proving how tough I am, or if your definition of manhood has something to do with dogs chewing on you. I have noticed that a-hole dogs almost always have a-hole owners.
Does your dog bite? ,
” No.”
OWW!!, I thought you said your dog doesn’t bite.
“That is not my dog.”
Dead ant dead ant dead ant
“That is not my dog.”
A Peter Sellers *classic*… 🙂
i remember reading about a study that john lott did years ago about the .22lr
after looking through decades of police reports and news reports going back to the 60s
he was unable to find a single case in which a homeowner defended him or her self with a .22lr firearm in a home invasion and lost their life
my kids will get all my guns someday
the last one theyll get is the walther p22 and the stockpile of cci mini mags
that will be my nightstand gun someday when my hands are too weak to run the slide on anything else
and i wont lose any sleep over it
check out that AR-180…believe it was the one with the drum on top…the military actually considered using it…the anti- Castro Cubans actually went into battle with nylon 66’s…and then there are are the Israelies who often use this rd in suppressed weapons…I used to like my AR-15 with a .22 conversion kit, sub-sonic rds. and a suppressor…it actually sounds like you’re dry-firing the weapon…nothing more than a “click”…..
If it’s what I had and it had fresh springs/a new ejector in it I’d have little issue carrying something like my Ruger Standard. Obviously I’d lean towards the .357 in most cases but wouldn’t (and haven’t) felt unarmed with a similar weapon.
My COST FREE suggestion to any and all who wish to carry a firearm or even just keep one at home for self defense: Go to YouTube and search out the “Active Self Protection” channel, “A.S.P.” for short. Subscribe. Go through their countless older postings and watch perhaps 100 or so of their real world shooting videos over time, as captured by security cams, dash cams, police body cams and by citizen / witness / bystander smartphones and such, from all over the world. Witness for yourself how common it is for people to get shot multiple times and still keep fighting. See this happen again and again, learn it, know it, and thus be mentally prepared for this if it ever happens to you. I.E. – If /when you ever actually have to put a bullet into somebody in a self-defense situation, there is a very real possibility that doing so will initially only serve to seriously piss them off. Don’t be taken by surprise!
Probably among the biggest mistakes someone with any typical handgun caliber could make would be to just ASSUME that shooting someone will cause them to instantly fall down and become completely motionless – just like on TV and in the movies, right? While that is certainly very possible depending on shot placement and their reaction to it, that kind of reaction is not anything even remotely close to guaranteed (except maybe from a well placed head shot(?)) FOR FREE, anyone with internet access can watch and study hundreds and hundreds of real world shootings from all over the world, of armed robberies, attempted car jackings, home invasions, you-name-it, and quietly study for yourself how real people actually react when they get shot. You will then most definitely understand why it is that police are taught not just to shoot but to continue shooting until the threat is clearly ended, not just to shoot and ASSUME that one shot will stop the threat. It very often does not. Did I mention that checking out those “Active Self Protection” videos is FREE? 🙂
(No, I have no association with the “Active Self Protection” channel other than as one of the the 2.33 million subscribers they have. I have certainly seen some fairly crazy stuff on the videos they put up, and the guy who narrates them seems to be a reasonably intelligent guy. 🙂
nothing is certain..buddy of mine once shot a guy with a .45, knocking him down the stairs…and he still returned fire putting him in the hospital…
22LR is the ideal sd caliber against angry mice. But not too angry.
A .22 is a fashion accessory that makes some folks feel better. The real problem isnt all in wound ballistics. The .22 simply can never be as reliable as a centerfire. Rimfire ammo, even the best, will never be as reliable as a centerfire. There are sometimes failures to fire, sometimes the heel based bullets move around in the case. This is a real misapplication of the caliber to use it for self defense. I have seen so many brainless articles on the .22 versus .25 that never address the real point- relaibility. Just the same- in a rifle, a much different story. Much better shot placement, greater penetration, and a rural defense rifle in .22 has planted quite a few bad guys. Two in SC, in each case a younster of 11-12 took out burglars in his home with a .22. Just not ideal.
You could make (and it often is made) a similar argument against semi-auto pistols (vs. revolvers) on reliability. Maybe compromise and carry a .22LR revolver…
The priming compound dont get spun all they way around sometimes , misfire.
1, 200 fps out of a two inch barrel is pretty impressive
my .22 mag NA mini has had several misfires…while the .22 LR cooks every time…bought ’em both at the same time…so go figure……
.22 for self-defense? Sure, you just throw a box of out into the air and yell “FREE AMMO!”, then escape during the ensuing confusion.
Lol that was funny
Nice!
“Whatever you may read on the intertubes, not everyone is a high speed, low drag tactical operator.”
And neither is the average guy who bought centerfire ratshooters like a 9mm Glock and a pipsqueak AR15 based on the recommendations of everybody who thinks they’re da bomb.
hear stories about the taliban walking right through hits from an M-4…a little disconcerting..
I’ve read the .22 LR has killed more people throughout the world than any other cartridge aside from those used by the world military. No, I haven’t yet reduced my EDC to a .22. But as aging continues, I have gone from a Sig 220 to a 226 then a Walther CCP. Weight has played a toll on my EDC do to injuries suffered during my 31 years in law enforcement. Now even the CCP is getting heavy for my shoulder rig. Yes the .22 will kill, but more importantly will it STOP an aggressor quickly. I have personally seen it do so, but do I trust it to do so often, no. But like stated in the article, it is better than nothing. If my shoulders continue to get worse, you bet I’ll settle for my Walther .22.
Bought my AMT .22 automag based on advice from a cop that always carried one as a backup piece… Could handle primary tasks but I’m a long way off from retiring my 10 mm… That 6″ barrel does make for a formidable presentation and looks much bigger than .22, I would NOT want to be on the receiving end of it’s 40 grain JHP at 1800 plus fps and 325 ft lbs…
.22LR, 6″ Bbl, 1800 plus and 325 ft/lbs…two of these thing’s are not like the others, two of these are not the same.
Would love to see the 40 gr .22LR that generates 1800 fps and 325 ft/lbs from a 6″ barrel…
Would love to see the 40 gr .22LR that generates 1800 fps and 325 ft/lbs from a 6″ barrel…
Me too, lucky for me MINE is .22 WMR… Would not use a .22lr on anything larger than a rabbit…
@MADDMAXX
Your experience is different from mine regarding the .22 WMR from a pistol. The only time I have chrono’d a 40gr load @1800 plus fps is firing from a rifle. I’m glad that you are not experiencing the reliability issues that particular pistol was notorious for.
After replacing the firing pin and the extractor my piece fires perfectly… This is not a plinkers piece, it requires maintenance and the slide must be kept lubed (I keep little tubes of “white” lithium grease, sorry they don’t make it in black) and I don’t have those issues… Yeah muzzle velocity is closer to 1350 w/40 grain… still w/JHP will do real damage…
I don’t but I would. I’m actually thinking of picking up a Ruger LCPII in .22 for pocket carry / BUG. Considering that there’s a 90% chance that if I use a gun in self defense I won’t even have to fire a shot, and even if I do, there’s a 90% chance the criminal is going to have a few moments of self reflection about his life choices once he realizes he’s been shot, and if not I still have 10 more tries at it, odds are it probably won’t make much difference if I’m carrying a .22 or a .44 mag. Although there’s probably more than a 90% chance that if I point my .44 at an aggressor he’ll reconsider without firing a shot.
I’d question the choice of a 29 grain bullet for deep penetration out of a short barreled pistol. A slower heavier bullet not only penetrates deeper than a faster, lighter one, but also stays in the barrel longer gathering more energy. You want lighter, faster for expansion, not penetration.
want a gun with a truly intimidating appearance?…try a Taurus “defender”…looks scary just setting on the shelf…
I’m one of the above described gun owners. I work in a place where I cannot carry a larger handgun. Like my ruger p89. Those of you who are self-employed or who are able to carry a larger gun at work, you are very fortunate. But the vast majority of us out here have to carry smaller guns, if we’re going to carry a gun at all.
So at work I carry my Beretta 21A in 22LR. I watched the 22plinkster video that came out a few days ago about this new federal ammunition. And his jel tests were very impressive. Since this ammunition was designed for best performance out of a shorter Barrel I will definitely buy some. If I can find it under our current ammunition shortage circumstances!!
Mr Z.
Thank you for a gun story that’s not about politics.
big (smile)
ps
I do practice shooting out to 25 yards with all my hand guns.
Federal sells it direct to consumers from their website, although they are currently sold out. They were available a couple days ago with a limit of 10 boxes.
https://www.federalpremium.com/rimfire/personal-defense-punch-rimfire/11-PD22L1.html
Bookmark that page and check it regularly. Could be that they will reserve some of the next run for this outlet again, may be available sooner (and cheaper) than elsewhere.
And, there are other brands that sell light, fast solids like these that may reach similar velocities from short barrels. These are unique because of the flat nose and nickel plating, but the velocity isn’t all that unique.
For the truly desperate, some will no doubt show up on gun broker soon, at 4x cost.
Thank you sir for the tip!!!
big (smile)
“So at work I carry my Beretta 21A in 22LR.”
I have that gun on order right now, the threaded-barrel version…
You will not be disappointed. It’s a great gun. I love that tip up barrel!!! It’s my wifes gun. She got it back in the early 1980’s. When beretta opened their factory in Maryland. Now moved to gun friendly Tenneessee.
You need to be aware that the placement of the mag release button, on the lower end of the grip, can be pushed by accident, as you grip the gun. This was a problem on the early 92 beretta hand guns, that we got in the US Army. The trainers warned us about this issue with this new gun.
I train at home pulling the gun out of my holster all the time. Using snap caps. Dry fire practice is a must.
Maybe some of the old-timers here know more about legit fmj .22’s from the 60’s? That seems it would be better than this offering especially if you could get the weight somewhere around 40 grains. There is even a special “carve out” in the GCA for .22’s and jacket mass proportions. I know .22’s are a heeled bullet (except for .22 mag) but it was done before. I always thought an ammo company could make some serious money if they made a high penetration .22 with a thick jacket. Yes, it would burn through barrels faster but .22 chambered firearms tend to be cheaper and that argument never stopped some people from shooting +p ammo in other calibers.
“Maybe some of the old-timers here know more about legit fmj .22’s from the 60’s?”
I ain’t *that* old, but I believe legit .22 FMJ can be found in .22 WMR. It damn sure ain’t copper-plate…
I WOULD NOT WANT TO GET SHOT WITH A 22LR , ONE OF THE MOST POPULAR FIRE ARM AND ROUND , AND HAS KILL , WOUND , MANY A PEOPLE , HEAD SHOT , CHEST HEART AREA VERY DEADLY , ROUND TUMBLES , YES , CARRY ONE 22LR REVOLVER FOR BACKUP , IT’S SMALL IN LIGHT , WITH MAIN WEAPON , LTC ,
BETTER THAN A FIST OR KNIFE FIGHT . USCCA HAD 5 KNOWN CASES WHERE 22LR SAVED PERSON LIFE IN A DEFENCE SERENARIO . YEP ALWAYS CLEAR THAT 22LR WEAPON , OVER AN OVER , EMPTY CHAMBER , PLEASE .
rd. has a tendency to move around inside a body…making a wound tricky to treat….
Although your grammar and punctuation are poor YOUR MESSAGE IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT ON.
Keep it up.
Best,
David
I personally don’t have a lot of confidence in a 22lr on people sized targets, even though I own a few for the kids & plinking, but there is one gun that has piqued my interest & that is the S T D THUNDERSTRUCK, but that’s a 22mag only (which is a very potent round) & fired Two bullets at the same time, holds 8 rounds & has speedloaders for it also. I saw results from firing into bullistic jell & it was quite a large hole & traveled a good ways also. I don’t have one yet but after the crowds go away I’ll check one out. My gun shop at Christmas time said it would take close to a year to get one….
My first CCW was a Walther P22, which was very reliable and I could shoot it well. Everything was fine and dandy until the day I had a situation where using my words managed to settle a threat against me – had the words not worked, the person that had threatened me would not have been dissuaded by a .22 pistol, or certainly anything physical I could inflict on him.
I ordered a .38 that week. I have no doubt that a .22 could make an appropriate deterrent and defensive piece, and they can certainly be lethal. But there are situations where a .22 just wouldn’t be enough, and they aren’t as rare as I’d like them to be.
Nate in CA,
“But there are situations where a .22 just wouldn’t be enough, and they aren’t as rare as I’d like them to be.”
That is an excellent way to describe the wisdom/reasoning for carrying larger calibers if you can shoot them accurately.
David Walters said a very wise thing: “And, most importantly in a confrontation with an armed perp who demonstrated aggression…I DON’T TALK.”
I’m also a big fan of assisted opening stilettos, which are awfully quiet in use…. 🙂
Also, thanks to Tiger for his link on fatalities.
Here are some fatality percentages by caliber in Boston:
.22 30%
.25 31%
.32 48%
.380 35%
.38 37%
9mm 57%
.357 72%
.40 55%
.44 67%
.45 37%
10mm 100%
Roger that…… 10mm…..100%
Eat that 10mm doubters……
That’s interesting but statistically irrelevant. There were only two 10mm shootings, while there were 115 9mm shootings. There isn’t enough data there to draw a proper conclusion.
Even if there were a similar number of shootings, there could be the variable of a different type of shooter. 10mm isn’t a common caliber. I personally think it’s over-represented in online forums. It’s possible that a 10mm shooter may be more likely to be someone that regularly practices as opposed to someone that carries the extremely common 9mm caliber.
I’ve carried a 10mm Glock (G29) for years, replaced my Ruger P-90 (45 ACP) even though it’s a bit heavier…
10mm 180gr 1300fps 708ft lbs
.44Mag 180gr 1500fps 899 ft lbs
10mm 100% one shot stops
.44Mag 67% one shot stops
I guess a bullet with the same weight traveling faster makes it less efficient ?
stiletto’s are still the most beautiful, sinister type of knife…but if you’re lucky enough to have a real one don’t tell anybody…even though those restrictions seem kind of silly these days….
Ps: .45 was actually 67%. Sorry about that.
and 460 rowland ?
What I think is more fun then killing people, not that killing people ain’t fun, but my freezers already full.
Is long range shooting with a .22LR, 500 yards is like 1500 for the big gunms, its fun.
Possum, I’ve heard there’s actually .22lr 1,000 yard shooting out there.
It makes me contemplate getting an Annie or a Vudoo bolt-action .22lr…
kill range is actually about 75 yds max…unless you’re shooting something very small…even though they use to put that “range 1 mile” warnings on the box….
It might be better than throwing rocks, but after almost 50 years of collecting I find no reason to carry a questionable caliber like the .22LR.
Rimfire is not reliable enough in a semi-auto pistol.
At least in a revolver you can keep pulling the trigger and even get a second strike.
Definitely not an ideal round in any situation.
Objective evidence of 22 LR underperforming:
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/pocket-pistol-caliber-gel-test-results/#22LR
Subjective fun shooting skulls with .22 LR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txOqq5D-oIk&ab_channel=GarandThumb
Was at the rifle / pistol range yesterday and a Kimber rep. was there allowing folks to fire a few round through their guns. I’m ex-Military so I chose the 1911s in .45.
Wow, have they come a long way since my military experience. The ease of accurate sighting (for me but not the wife, regrettably almost embarrassing) was absolutely trivial. A co-witnessed RDot was spectacular.
My carry weapon is an ancient 1911 in .45 acp (Interesting story, I took it away from my father in law who had just purchased it from a pawn shop to kill his oldest daughter for thieving his business…what a fight we had…she lived…father in law ultimately recovered). But it’s a piece of crap compared to what Kimber showed me yesterday. So, I have pistol lust, big time.
But almost 2 grand for a pistol that I liked? No way. I’ll stick with a pawn shop .45.
What’s up with pistol prices today?
My main concern would be how reliable .22 ammunition was. In many trips to the range .22 far and away has the most reliability issues.
I’ve been out of Health Care for nearly 20 years. But back in the 80’s and 90’s, .22LR topped the list of US Deaths by Caliber. Of course, that data was collected for all firearm involved deaths whether Accidental, Intentional and Suicide.
I don’t keep up on that literature anymore, so I don’t know that it’s the case today.
My wife could no longer carry her S&W Model 60 at her workplace, so I bought her a NAA .22WMG. She can hit the X at 15 -20 feet with it, and in a modified ankle holster, it’s unobtrusive.
I’m a firm believer in the “Any gun is better than no gun” school of thought.
Thankfully, she’s never had to use it, and she no longer works for that employer. Her current employer’s fine with CC.
.22 was the Mafia go to hit piece for those up close and personal “executions” for the well dressed hitman that didn’t want to get blood all over him and was too lazy to use a garrote… Also easiest to “silence” and no big clean up afterward… 2nd favorite? the ice pick in the ear or the brainstem…
I was locked up with Ice Pick George, he was a nice guy, real quiet and liked flowers.
real quiet and liked flowers
Typical cold blooded killer… It’s just a job…
remember those $14.95 “Saturday night specials” they used to advertise?…even put the ads in comic books..ugly little thing….
This has been an illuminating thread on the .22. Note, please, that I didn’t say it was polite…but then we are gun guys.
Here’s some good news…just got a call from my armorer at Carter’s Country here near Houston and he couldn’t find any problem with my Remington 597 semi WHEN USING NEW CCI AMMO. I was having stovepipes out the a-hole with some old Federal stuff which used to perform just fine.
He said to retire that old ammo to my 5.2″ tall wife’s break open Rossi single shot and use new CCI’s. I’m up for it. Indeed, I already have some in the ammo safe shrink wrapped.
Now, if I can just get HER on target…
Sorry if this is off topic.
Pay no attention to the jag-off above; It doesn’t understand the topic, has no point of reference, and is just indulging its penchant for self-pleasuring via keyboard.
YOU are NOT ‘off-topic’ in the sense that you are pointing out the reliability issues with both new and aging .22 semi-automatics, and how they may be unreliable with one brand and work just fine with another.
As semi-autos, especially .22s, age, get sloppy, and their chambers wear, the lower-velocity ammunition no longer provides the ‘snap’ needed to make the components move rapidly, crisply, and with sufficient force to cycle the gun properly. Give the gun higher-pressure ammunition, and you can restore a lot of its functionality; The ejector becomes more ‘energetic,’ a worn extractor engages with more ‘force’ to overcome wear, there’s more energy imparted to the bolt to pull a slightly-swollen case out of a loosening chamber.
Of course, higher-pressure ammunition will increase the rate of wear over time. Eventually, some new springs, a new extractor, and maybe a chamber rework will be needed.
Now, see? You were right ‘on topic.’
have an AK-22…shoots fine in semi…but breaks the firing pin every time in full-auto…trying to remember who made it…possibly Mitchell…that PPS-50 is a nice little shooter too…think it has a 50 rd drum…looks a lot like its big brother….
A couple years ago, I was researching Ruger LCRs online, clicking through chains of reviews and blog posts, and I came across a page of links to some blog posts that were short stories about an acquaintance of his–old man who lived alone on a mountain in KY or WV, who carried a pair of 22 snubbies, one in each front pocket. He practiced with them daily, and had for decades. He could shoot instinctively with both hands, and would put a mess of hurt on anybody that needed it. It made me think that a 22 could be a formidable weapon for a serious shooter. Interesting read. Tried to relocate that page of blog posts so I could paste the link here, but can’t find it.
well I took out a tire with one once…of course it took awhile to go down…but we still got the guy a little later…
The .22 caliber firearm is an outstanding caliber for commiting mass murder.
1.
Terrorists use 22 caliber AK47s
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/02/10/22-lr-ak-22s-used-holey-artisan-bakery-attack/
2.
Attacker used a ruger 10/22
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Mall_shooting
3.
In Finland, Kauhajoki school shooting walther p22 10 killed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kauhajoki_school_shooting
And a 22 is also a great self defense weapon.
4.
Grandmother uses 1022 compact
https://www.ammoland.com/2019/06/grandmother-uses-semi-automatic-rifle-to-hold-suspect-for-police/#axzz5tHvcbIQD
.22LR is deadly and with a gun like a Glock G44, 10 rounds can be quickly and accurately administered out to 50 feet and that’s a lot of lead. That Glock is light as a feather, the fully loaded mags are too, I’d not hesitate to carry it and two extra spares on my belt and that’s 31 rounds of lead. Somebody will soon over 15-20 round G44 mags and again, very light weight even if hauling spare 2×20 mags.
A 9mm did the trick… 2 to center of mass, pointed not aimed, at MAX 4 ft away, more like arm’s length as I backed way from him. My wife and I were assaulted by a homeless guy we put up in our spare bedroom. Both of us are old and have health conditions making unarmed defense against any assault next to impossible. I believe that he thought I wouldn’t use lethal force on account of my generally pacifist Christian ethics. The first one didnt stop him, he kept coming at me, reaching for my pistol. The second put him down permanently. A very sad event, one that will weigh on my heart till my last breath… Pray that you never find yourself in a similar situation!
For many years I have kept a Ruger MK II 51/2 inch Bbl. with a stack of mags close by. It has a Hi Viz fiber optic green front sight and is a tack driver at thirty yards. Keep it loaded with CCI Velocitors. At close range I don’t feel under gunned. Of course I also have a Tac 14 with controlled recoil 00 as my main house gun.
It’s not what you shoot, it’s where you hit with it. No amount of nit picking can deny that. Of course could ask, what about a BB/pellet gun too? Head shots? There is a fine line between stupid and willfully stupid. More and more people cross it every day.
i heard many old Texas Hill Country ranchers, 50 and 60 years ago, say they always shot deer for food with a .22 rifle. Now folks hunt the same deer with 7mm Rem. Magnums. Like the old sourdoughs and natives in Alaska (where I spent many years) used to always kill moose with a .30-30. and now newcomers think they need a .375 H&H magnum. It’s all overkill rather than what will get the job done. In general, criminals want an easy target and will take off if a gun comes out, especially one inflicting pain. Anyway, I know lots of old folks (being one myself) that just can’t operate a 1911 strength wise, but don’t want to just be a victim.
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