I’ve heard it said by gun advocates that all that’s needed to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. The idea is that we need more guns, not fewer. We just need them in the hands of the good people.
I doubt that means we are going to take guns away from bad people. That would fall under the heading of gun control. Well then, can we get more good people to get guns?
That might not help. On the average there are already 1.2 guns for every man, woman and child in the U.S. Since not many children are packing, that means there are probably already a lot of good people with more than one gun, maybe more than two.
Which brings me to the spate of mass shootings. If those numbers are right, it’s extremely likely that there were at least some “good guys (or women)” with guns at most of the mass shootings we’ve heard about over the past few years. However, with the exception of the armed private citizen who killed an active mass shooter at an Indiana mall, I haven’t heard of a mass shooter who was stopped by a good guy with a gun.
The idea that it could, is flawed. Just because someone has, let’s say a handgun, it doesn’t [mean] they would have the ability or courage, or both, to confront at close quarters a desperate, possibly deranged, opponent with an assault rifle and body armor. The Indiana mall hero, it should be noted, fired first from a distance estimated at 120 feet. Not exactly close-quarters combat.
At the supermarket in Buffalo, my bet is that all of the handgun carriers were cowering under display cases like everyone else.
— Mark Durham in Opinion: Is It Reasonable To Think Every Good Guy With a Gun Can Stop a Mass Shooter?
The supermarket in Buffalo was in a pretty gun free state. It is unlikely that anyone other than the uniformed security and the killer were armed.
The reason you don’t hear about more mass shootings stopped by good guys is because good guys on average stop the event with only 2 dead so the media and law enforcement don’t consider it a mass shooting.
“At the supermarket in Buffalo, my bet is that all of the handgun carriers were cowering under display cases like everyone else.”
You nailed it Crimson Pirate. New York actively prevents honest citizens from defending themselves. Indiana is taking a hand-off approach to the issue of honest citizens defending themselves. Apples to oranges comparisons like the author is doing gets us nowhere.
Or, like the situation here in Ca, it is almost impossible to get a CCW permit. Oh, i could be a GGWaG but I’d be an illegally carrying GGWaG.
RE: “Durham: We Can’t Take Guns Away From Bad Guys Because That Would Be Gun Control”
People like durham are like child molesters who sit around thinking up angles to get at the kid next door. Only difference is durham’s sneaky goal is Gun Control.
So to durham and those like him the following is the program and one way or another you and your deranged ilk will comply with the program…
1) The Second Amendment is one thing.
2) The criminal misuse of firearms, bricks, bats, knives, vehicles, etc. is another thing.
3) History Confirms Gun Control in any shape, matter or form is a racist and nazi based Thing.
Between that and more populated states making it difficult to obtain a permit let alone have anywhere to carry it I think we will more see a concentration of where horrific mass shootings tend to happen over time. Unfortunately I work in a likely future cluster.
Even if you get a permit in one of the rarely issue states and have to use your gun, may God have mercy on you because the state surely will not.
The REAL reason you (generally speaking) don’t hear about things like this is because the damnable “press” we have in this country is SO damned “anti-gun” that they’ve effectively “left” this country..!!
What part of “socialism” don’t these people understand?? What’s REALLY stupid about these people is that they vote for, and champion the causes of, people who actually are their worst enemy…!! You’d think that with all of their much-vaunted education, they’d understand these things..!! I mean, his stupid can you be??
The REAL problem – the very “HEART” of the problem in this country – is twofold: (1), As each generation comes along, there is less and less belief in a “Higher Being”..! And secondly (2), As each generation comes along, there is less and less belief or understanding, that whatever you do in this life, will have a direct bearing on what happens to you in the next.
I really wonder if Progressives are so blinded by their vision of utopia they don’t realize it will be a dystopian nightmare with their fellow travelers in the criminal fraternity having different goals and ideas.
There are plenty of examples of where government and criminals are in collusion. Mexico, China, former USSR, modern Russia, South Africa, Venezuela, Myanmar, and lots of others.
“Southern Cross August 15, 2022 At 15:24
There are plenty of examples of where government and criminals are in collusion. Mexico, China, former USSR, modern Russia, South Africa, Venezuela, Myanmar, and lots of others.”
You left out the most obvious example: The USA under bitme and company. Of course in our present administration it is impossible to distinguish between government and criminals because they are the same.
Varies by location really. If it is in my home county and the State police are not involved (read Governor takes an interest) I am not much worse off than if it happened in most of central Pennsylvania (at least until civil court). Now if it happens around where I work in Albany (assuming I was allowed to carry there to begin with even before our new laws kicking in about 2 weeks from now) yeah gonna be a bad time. I haven’t been to NYC since………..2017 so yeah not gonna worry about that one.
Hush – That is not true in Illinois, and especially Chicago. An Uber Driver stopped a mass shooting in Logan Park 2 years ago and was publicly thanked by police.
Crimson Pirate,
Another reason why we do not hear much about armed bystanders stopping an attacker is because the mainstream media largely refuses to publish such events.
most people carry guns to protect themselves…not the general public…they just want to survive…not be a hero…
….think of the mall shootings in Kenya where they were up against actual, heavily-armed terrorists…those that survived often credited their personal firearms with saving them…
I haven’t heard of a mass shooter who was stopped by a good guy with a gun
Just because this derp hasn’t heard of it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. Often, it doesn’t fit the narrative, or the shooter is stopped before it becomes a “mass shooting” event (eg, the West Freeway Church of Christ in 2019).
Imagine being paid to write that sentence, but not having the initiative to Google something you haven’t heard of. The brave new face of 21st century journalism.
The problem with his statement is three fold.
1, that’s just ignorant, there are dozens of such events every year and some of them are pretty high profile.
2, as you stated, what his claims about what he’s heard has absolutely zero bearing on reality.
3, If a bad guy is stopped by a good guy with a gun BEFORE they manage to kill very many people, it isn’t so likely to make the news now is it?
I had no idea that Dacien had been invited to write an article for Citizen Times.
There are none so blind as those that will not see.
The idea that people owning guns means they carry them or are any good at shooting them is not just silly but is closer to ridiculous. Even if everyone knew for a provable fact that every gun owner had twenty guns, it wouldn’t matter. Every gun left at home is one that isn’t going to be used to stop bad guys in a public setting. When a gun owner can’t or doesn’t practice at a range, then there is very little chance or making any shot worth while. Which brings us to states like New York and California that make anyone trying to do the right thing into a criminal. If all the good guys are so heavily constrained by the stupid laws in places like this then there simply wont be any armed resistance against the bad guys there. THIS is the horrific result of gun control. Needless preventable death.
Owning the weapon and being able to use it are two very different things. Regardless of how many there are. It’s just as absurd to think that buying a firearm makes you a Republican voter.
And it’s incredible how many citizens are still not carrying.
It’s because government and criminals are collaborating.
Southern,
Umm . . . which is which????
which is which????
WHO’s on First…
some of us were just naturals…with little or no practice…despite everyone I knew refusing to believe it when I was top-shooter at qualification…and then one day it slowly just started going away…not sure why…age maybe…
The Left in this country has changed the name of Abortion to “CHOICE.” It’s about time that we change the name of Gun Free Zones to what they really are, “KILLING ZONES.”
Buying a gun may not make you a Republican, but in the current environment voting Democrat always supports more gun control.
“…that means there are probably already a lot of good people with more than one gun, maybe more than two.”
Yup!
Next brainless, mindless comment from Mr. Durham should be: “I’m completely owned by my fear and the DNC’s agendas…a willing useful idiot.”
“I’m completely owned by my fear and the DNC’s agendas…a willing useful idiot.”
You must have extensive personal, lived experience in being an idiot, son.
Go away, the adults are speaking… 😉
“Just because someone has, let’s say a handgun, it doesn’t [mean] they would have the ability or courage, or both, to confront at close quarters ”
That is an issue best addressed by the gun owner and his creator, not some fascist sumbitch who wants to regulate the world to his liking.
I want to see a whole lot more women armed. There is nothing in the natural world more ferocious than a mother protecting her young. Bravery and cowardice have little to do with it. Mothers protecting their children is more primal than men’s displays of courage.
For sure.
This author hasn’t noticed that such shootings occur in gun-free zones.
if you can avoid using that gun..you should…but sometimes you just have no choice…
His time would be better spent researching how many times it actually happened and was ignored or buried by the gun hating media!
“Is it reasonable to think every good guy with a gun can stop a mass shooter?”
For $500 and the chance to advance to the showcase showdown —
name that logical fallacy!
non distributio medii
I have seen a few articles acting like the mall shooting was the only case where a mass killer was stopped by someone with a gun (of course not mentioning police response ending them). Lots of “bad guys: 300+, good guys: 1” type headlines. No mention of Sutherland Springs where they chased down the perp. I have seen a few videos of other attempted church shootings where people in the crowd took them down. There were a couple where a citizen stopped it but was shot by responding police. There have been a couple other mall shootings ended by non-police.
Guns aren’t magical despite Democrat beliefs about them. They won’t automatically prevent shootings, you may still die even if armed. But they do give you a fighting chance to defend yourself. Would you rather have a gun when a school or office shooter breaks down the door, or be unarmed with no where to run, pleading for your life?
Yes, you can take guns away from bad guys.
As Justice Thomas explained in Bruen, the history and tradition of 2nd Amendment jurisprudence of the late 18th and early 19th Century is the standard, the intent of the person carrying mattered.
If the person was carrying solely for defensive purposes, the act of carrying was protected by the 2nd Amendment. If the person was carrying for criminal purposes, then the criminal act committed AND the act of carrying was unlawful and the 2nd Amendment provided no protection.
Of course, this would require judges to actually judge.
they do it all the time…police evidence storage vaults are full of them…but then they just go out and get another one…
“Mark Durham in Opinion: Is It Reasonable To Think Every Good Guy With a Gun Can Stop a Mass Shooter? ”
Is it reasonable to think that when they actually do, that for some reason they don’t according to anti-gun?
Is it reasonable to think that every bartender that cuts someone off can stop a drunk driver? Yet, that’s exactly what the law, and MADD, and NHTSA, think yet the number of drunk drivers leaving bars that have been cut off by a bartender continues to rise.
Is it reasonable to think that if a person can stop a mass shooter by DGU that they should not have the means to do so? Ask Eli Dicken, the police department, senators in congress that recognized his heroic act, the people he saved.
Is it reasonable to think every driver can stop another driver from running into them? Yet, over 2,000,000 people annually are (collectively) seriously injured or killed (we only hear about and see stats for the fatalities that happen at accident time, not the ~1.2 million that will later die annually as a result of injures from the car accident), but we still let cars on the roads.
What a stupid question.
Its not a ‘every time thing’, but when they can and are successful lives are (on average) saved, a lot more lives (on average) than are saved by the police showing up after the shooting starts. Considering that, plus you never see any anti-gun groups leaders or politicians or ‘pontificating’ journalists rushing in to stop the killer, if the good guy with a gun in already on scene and can its the best chance.
“However, with the exception of the armed private citizen who killed an active mass shooter at an Indiana mall, I haven’t heard of a mass shooter who was stopped by a good guy with a gun.”
Well, that’s because you are an idiot.
To start, just a few from history that made the news > Guns Stopped Mass Shootings 12 Times by Good Guys With Guns… > https://fn57sale.com/guns-stopped-mass-shootings/
1. Pearl High School: Oct. 1, 1997
Luke Woodham fatally stabbed his mother at home before opening fire at his high school, killing two students and injuring seven others. The attack was stopped when Assistant Principal Joel Myrick retrieved his .45 caliber handgun from his truck and confronted Woodham, detaining him until authorities could arrive. This is a case were Guns Stopped Mass Shootings from becoming worse.
Myrick’s action stopped Woodham from going across the street to the middle school as he had planned.
2. Parker Middle School: April 24, 1998
A 14-year-old student showed up to his middle school dance carrying a .25-caliber pistol. He opened fire inside the dance, killing one teacher and wounding another as well as two students. The rampage ended when James Strand, owner of the banquet hall the dance was happening in, grabbed his personal shotgun and confronted the 14-year-old killer. Strand held the teen at gunpoint for 11 minutes before finally getting him to drop the weapon and lie on the ground and searching him for additional weapons. Without this law abiding citizen, the Guns Stopped Mass Shootings wouldn’t have applied here.
3. Appalachian School of Law: Jan. 16, 2002
A 43-year-old former student armed with a .380 handgun killed Dean Anthony Sutin and Professor Thomas Blackwell with point blank shots and went on to kill fellow student Angela Dales as well as wounding three others before being confronted at gunpoint by law students Tracy Bridges, a county sheriff’s deputy, and Mikael Gross, a police officer, after retrieving their personal handguns from their vehicles. The gunman was then apprehended by other students.
Gross and Bridges lost valuable response time accessing their handguns because of the law school’s standing as a gun-free zone. Guns Stopped Mass Shootings in the past, why would we encourage gun free zones where we are sitting ducks?
4. New Life Church: Dec. 9, 2007
2 parishioners were killed and 3 wounded when a gunman toting a Bushmaster AR-15 opened fire at New Hope Church. Hearing the rifle fire, Jeanne Assam grabbed her personal concealed carry firearm and confronted the gunman from a distance of 20 yards. Guns Stopped Mass Shootings According to this article in 5280 magazine:
She fires five quick shots. Murray falls backward. Assam moves to the middle of the corridor and rushes forward. She’s a few dozen feet from Murray now, exposed in the middle of the hallway. “Drop your weapon, or I will kill you!” she yells. Murray sits up to face her. He’s still holding the rifle. Boom-boom-boom. Bullets rip past her and pepper a wall. While Murray shoots, Assam fires three times.
Through the haze of gun smoke, Assam sees the man struggling on the floor. He props his head against a wall. Her weapon is up, trained on the man. She sees his hands moving near his shoulder. He’s trying to pull the pin on a grenade. He’s going to kill everyone around here, Assam thinks. She instinctively steps back and fires two more shots.
5. New York Mills AT&T Store: May 27, 2010
A 79-year-old man entered an AT&T store in New York Mills, New York carrying a .357 magnum revolver in his hand and a list of employees he planned to kill in his pocket. Hearing the hand cannon go off, Donald J. Moore drew his own personal weapon and Guns Stopped Mass Shootings here and killed the gunman before he could complete his plan. One employee was wounded in the shooting.
6. Sullivan Central High School: August 30, 2010
When a 62-year-old man armed with two handguns forced his way into Sullivan Central High School in Tennessee, he was immediately engaged by School Resource Officer Carolyn Gudger. Gudger put her body between the gunman and a student and started what would turn out to be a more than 10 minute gun-to-gun encounter. Gudger used the time to slowly move the man to a less crowded part of the school. When other officers arrived on the scene, a brief gun battle erupted ending with the gunman mortally wounded. Guns Stopped Mass Shootings.
7. Freewill Baptist Church: March 25, 2012
Aaron Guyton was inside the recreation building of his grandfather’s church when he saw Jessie Gates, a member of the congregation, pulling a shotgun from his vehicle. Guyton leapt into action, locking the doors to the church where services were going on. Gates kicked in the door and pointed the shotgun at Rev. Henry Guyton and several parishioners. Drawing his concealed handgun, the younger Guyton held Gates at gunpoint while two members of the church took him to the ground. Guns Stopped Mass Shootings here and Rev. Guyton then took the shotgun from his hand.
8. Clackamas Town Center Mall: Dec. 11, 2012
Police and medics work the scene of a multiple shooting at Clackamas Town Center Mall in Clackamas, Ore., Tuesday Dec. 11, 2012. A gunman is dead after opening fire in the Portland, Ore., area shopping mall Tuesday, killing two people and wounding another, sheriff’s deputies said. (AP Photo/Greg Wahl-Stephens)
Two people were killed and a third was seriously wounded at Clackamas Town Center near Portland, Oregon when a rifle-toting gunman opened fire in in the busy food court. Nick Meli, a shopper in the mall, drew a personally owned firearm on the gunman, who immediately retreated to a service corridor and killed himself. Meli did not fire his weapon for fear of striking bystanders yet authorities say his actions caused the gunman to cease his attack and end his own life.
9. Mystic Strip Club: January 11, 2014
After being refused entry to the strip club for belligerent behavior and racist comments earlir in the night, Thomas Elliott Hjelmeland returned carrying a handgun and wearing a Halloween mask. As soon as he entered the club, Hjelmeland opened fire, striking bouncer Brian Rizzo, a patron, and a waitress. Another bouncer, Jonathan Baer drew his concealed handgun and shot Hjelmeland, killing him.
Following the attack Baer posted to Facebook: “Its a fact that Guns Stopped Mass Shootings time and time again. I did what I felt was right to stop the shooter…I carry every day, and will continue to, and will so with the hope that I will NEVER have to pull it out again.”
10. Austin, Texas Construction Site: April 30, 2014
An irate former employee came to a construction site and opened fire on his co-workers. The site’s foreman, a Concealed Handgun License holder, drew his firearm and opened fire. Both men were wounded in the exchange of gunfire but the foreman’s actions ended the attack and no one else was wounded.
11. Cache Valley Hospital: May 16, 2014
Armed with two handguns, a man entered the Cache Valley Hospital emergency room and began making demands. After demanding to see a doctor, he racked the slide on one of his handguns and told hospital employees “someone is going to die today”. While a security guard tried to keep the gunman’s focus on him, two corrections officers who happened to be at the hospital on an unrelated matter engaged from another direction and prove the fact that Guns Stopped Mass Shootings. The gunman was shot three times and no other people were harmed.
12. Mercy Fitzgerald Hospital: July 25, 2014
A patient at a psychiatric clinic killed his case worker at point blank range and then turned his gun on his doctor, Lee Silverman, striking him several times. Before the gunman could leave the office and continue his rampage, Dr. Silverman drew his own concealed handgun and pumped three rounds into the gunman’s torso, mortally wounding him. Police and hospital staff hail Dr. Silverman as a hero and credit him with saving dozens of lives.
There are a lot more, like the customer at the Walmart that stopped a mass shooting from beginning by drawing on the shooter and forcing him to leave. Or how about the over 200 that were actually stopped from beginning in the Texas study by the defender simply brandishing (even though the Texas study only credited a few because they defender actually shot the killer – it does not include those stopped from beginning by ordinary armed citizens simply brandishing). There are even hundreds from the last few years; for example, the grain elevator incident when an employee with a shot gun stopped a mass shooting, and the armed Uber driver that stopped a mass shooting from beginning while waiting for a customer, or how about the lady at the party who engaged a shooter and prevented it from becoming a mass shooting …. and even in the last few weeks how about the guy at the party who stopped a possible mass shooting by shooting the attacker. Or how about the armed teacher that stopped a mass shooter the moment he entered the school.
There are literally thousands of incidents where an ordinary armed citizen employed DGU and stopped a mass shooting in some manner. This is not even counting the thousands of times daily across the U.S. where an armed ordinary citizen employs DGU in some form to stop an ‘active shooter’ in common variety crimes like home invasions, store robberies, assaults, etc…
“it’s extremely likely that there were at least some “good guys (or women)” with guns at most of the mass shootings we’ve heard about over the past few years.”
This is a favorite anti-gun trick – they set the conditions to make their statements seem true. No, its not likely for a multitude of reasons most to do with this stupid ‘no guns’ zone thing.
“The idea that it could, is flawed. Just because someone has, let’s say a handgun, it doesn’t [mean] they would have the ability or courage, or both, to confront at close quarters a desperate, possibly deranged, opponent with an assault rifle and body armor. The Indiana mall hero, it should be noted, fired first from a distance estimated at 120 feet. Not exactly close-quarters combat.”
There’s that anti-gun trick again – this time setting the qualification to be ‘close-quarters combat’.
First, very few criminals and mass shooters actually wear body armor.
Second, they have been ‘close-quarters combat’ incidents where a ‘good guy with a gun’ did have the ability and courage to stop an “opponent with an assault rifle and body armor”.
Third, the thing about body armor is way over blown. Even an opponent with body armor can me overcome and defeated by hand gun at close range (e.g. ‘close-quarters combat’) by constant engagement fire as at least some of the bullets are going to hit an area that is not covered by body armor. And its been done too by ordinary armed citizens employing DGU even when the opponent had one of your mythical ‘assault rifles’.
Its beyond the scope of the comments here to list all of them with all the information. But you would think a person who writes such stuff as you write would at least know how to do some research. Most of them sadly don’t make the news the public sees.
“At the supermarket in Buffalo, my bet is that all of the handgun carriers were cowering under display cases like everyone else.”
yeah, that’s your guess. That’s always the guess of anti-gun.
I’ll bet that there were no ‘handgun carriers’ there, law abiding people tend not to carry guns in ‘no guns zones’ or areas they never go.
Just because a person carries a gun does not mean they are imbued with super powers that make them heroes. Here is yet another anti-gun trick for setting conditions – now the gun carrier has to be a hero all the time to not be a coward.
Well, let me ask, where were you that day? ’cause I don’t remember seeing anything where you flew in, did a super hero landing, and stopped the shooter. Oh that’s right, you were busy pounding away on your key board to write anti-gun articles on a subject you don’t know anything about.
But I guess had you been there that day you certainly would have been cowering under display cases, and not able to do anything to have at least a chance to stop the killer if he came for you but I imagine its possible you would have at least thrown your cell phone at him.
The ‘Good Guys With Guns’ the FBI Stats Omit > https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2022/08/10/the_good_guys_with_guns_the_fbi_stats_omit_846869.html
is anybody taking the FBI seriously these days?…they’ve become a bunch of political pawns…..
Because anti-gun people project themselves onto everyone else.
Thanks for the exhaustive list! POTG know all that. Many times just pulling out a gat stops aggression. I’ve come close to doing just that. The author is a maroon…
I hope you don’t mind if I save this and copy paste (with attribution of course) whenever this topic arises in other forums.
How the FBI Undercounts Armed Citizen Responders to Mass Killers, and Media Play Along > https://www.realclearinvestigations.com/articles/2022/08/10/how_the_fbi_undercounts_armed_citizen_responders_to_mass_killers_-_and_media_play_along_847128.html?mc_cid=e21b8de428
yeah,..those irate parents are really dangerous…..
“…..I haven’t heard of a mass shooter who was stopped by a good guy with a gun….”
Jeez, I wonder why you haven’t. 🤔
It may be because…….
https://youtu.be/koUa5J3cw-s
Remember when the 18A caused so much gun violence the Feds legislated NFA? The reason I ask, is there are a lot of conservatives who claim to be history and constitution experts that use the EXACT SAME ARGUMENTS AS GUN CONTROLLERS to ignore the 5A right to property. (Yes Karen, I’m aware drugs offend your sensibilities and we must violate the rights of anyone who does. Oh! Just like a leftist!). Conservatives are every bit the communists the liberals are, they just hate people for different reasons. Allow me to demonstrate:
In 1972, Nixon redefined Yellow Peril / Mongolian Octopus and reefer madness to “Health and Safety” for the sole purpose of protecting this guys legacy:
“Marijuana is the most violence causing drug in the history of mankind. Most marijuana smokers are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos and entertainers.” ~ Harry J. Anslinger, Father of the drug war
Amazing isn’t it? How conservatives can spend three years deftly identifying federal Covid propaganda, but are just delighted to fund and execute the drug war. How much of Biden’s money do cops take to implement democrat racism, while perjuring their oaths to the 18A/5A right to property, anyway??
And I thought that I ventured off-topic occasionally.
See above
Oh, I read it. I just wish I hadn’t wasted my time by doing so.
Any discussion about the levels of violence in the US or criminals getting their hands on guns, that doesn’t include the drug war, is evidence that the folks in the discussion are too illiterate to be having the discussion in the place.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=drug+war+gun+violence&t=iphone&ia=web
So you’re the only literate one in this discussion?
I reject your premise.
dacian/alberts long lost cousin?
if you’re in an illegal business you can’t call the cops for protection…or can you?
“I doubt that means we are going to take guns away from bad people.”
That’s part of the problem with liberalism. All the focus is put to taking guns away from everyone rather than making people accountable for what they do.
“However, with the exception of the armed private citizen who killed an active mass shooter at an Indiana mall, I haven’t heard of a mass shooter who was stopped by a good guy with a gun”
That’s because your too busy listening to CNN and following idiocy on Facebook and Twitter to notice.
“…opponent with an assault rifle and body armor.”
These people are NOT using assault rifles. You might would know that if you would quit listening to ignorant people.
Because the Progressive solution is to disarm everyone, but they know criminals won’t be fully disarmed so they are used as low level enforcers.
It’s all about disarming the populace, so they don’t protect our sovereignty, to implement one world government.
“So, what do we do?”
How about offering solutions? The writer doesn’t.
Who ties these people’s shoes in the morning?
This steaming pile of utter illogic tells me they probably need Velcro.
A quick death penalty for anyone caught red handed would be a good start…let all would be mass shooters know that they will DIE…If one survives the initial police or good armed citizen response (which they shouldn’t).. A swift execution will follow their arrest…We need hanging judges again, just like the old west…The only thing a mass shooter should be known for is being dead…The same with gang members and radical lefties..
Mark Durham was right on the beam
Less than 3% of mass shootings are stopped by an armed citizen simply because you are dead meat when you try and stop a maniac with body armor and a high powered assault rifle. Even an unskilled person with a rifle can hit his target at close range far easier than a person with a handgun who is trying to shoot for the head and under extreme stress. This of course is rejected by the Far Right whose paranoia makes it impossible for them to think logically or clearly or accept stone cold statistical facts.
Last year a maniac who murdered many people at a church was fired on by a neighbor who also had an AR 15. He failed to stop or kill him and the maniac simply got in his car and drove off.
Only by preventing maniacs from getting assault rifles or other firearms in the first place will ever put a stop to mass shootings. Britain did it with just one law and so have other European countries. Britain has not had a mass school shooting since the 90’s.
Well then, I guess that you have found your PerfectPlace… bye-bye and good riddance.
He has to remove the ankle bracelet and get off the registered sex offender list before he can travel.
“Less than 3% of mass shootings are stopped by an armed citizen…”
Debunked many times, but you still repeat the same lie.
“Only by preventing maniacs from getting assault rifles or other firearms in the first place will ever put a stop to mass shootings.”
Name one case where a shooter used an assault rifle in a mass (or other) shooting. Show your work.
And, pray tell, how do you prevent maniacs from getting firearms?
“Britain did it with just one law…”
We have thousands of laws on the books to prevent criminals from obtaining firearms, so that must mean that no criminals obtain firearms.
“Britain has not had a mass school shooting…”
Did you hear that “whoosh” sound? It’s made by moving goalposts. You were talking about mass shootings, suddenly it becomes mass school shootings. So which is it?
dacian has a brain armor that it impenetrable by the facts….
MAXX,
Wish I’d said that. Can I steal it from you?? Can’t promise I’ll ONLY use it against dacian the demented dips*** (on this forum, we’d also have to include MajorStupidity, Albert the Fake-Limey Subject, and jsled, at least, but it has applicability far beyond this forum), but I constantly come across people to whom it applies, with a vengeance.
Wish I’d said that. Can I steal it from you??
By all means, go forth and bless ALL those who are deemed deserving with the aforementioned statement… And I am in agreement with your description of those others who are worthy of that description on THIS forum.
A density only matched by a black hole.
Firearm statistics expert John R. Lott Jr. recently exposed the FBI’s gross underestimation of the number of times armed citizens have stopped a mass shooting event and suggested that the agency is purposefully muffing the numbers for political reasons.
https://www.westernjournal.com/researcher-alleges-fbi-seriously-undercounts-armed-citizen-responses-active-shootings-real-
The FBI political????….perish the thought!….
My thought exactly, just needed to hear it “confirmed”.
dacian the demented dips***,
As others on this thread have ATTEMPTED to point out to you, your “statistic” is errant bullshit. More importantly, like ALL Leftist/fascists, you completely ignore context and relevant facts – like the FACT that, until quite recently, it was very difficult (impossible, in most blue jurisdictions) for an “average citizen” to obtain a concealed carry permit. If you are going to try to apply ONE “statistic” (that you feel happens to support your narrative), might it not be prudent to consider other relevant statistics like, for example, “what percentage of the population were carrying??”.
Obviously not, for a brain-dead Leftist/fascist nitwit such as yourself.
Go back to your circle jerk, dacian – I doubt you’re any more coherent or productive, but MajorStupidity, Albert the Fake-Limey, and our nameless, brainless, d***less troll might be entertained. And the adults on the forum will be grateful for your absence.
now if they’d just stop killing Irishmen….
Of course a long gun is easier to shoot accurately at distance. Sounds like an endorsement of open carry of rifles by all law-abiding citizens.
I haven’t heard of a mass shooter who was stopped by a good guy with a gun
You don’t read much do you? Or do you only read what fits your narative?
Could be he’s only counting school shootings?
In Dacian’s case, it’s “conflating,” not counting,
“…there are probably already a lot of good people with more than one gun, maybe more than two.” LOL! Yeah, I may have more than two. That’s an arsenal, right? That Indiana mall shooting story is wild. The only time a shooter has ever been stopped by a good guy with a gun in the history of mankind, it would seem. Stellar research on your position Mr. Durham. You truly are the seat of all knowledge on defensive gun uses. 😎👍
Bull Durham
Bull$h!t Durrrham
From what I understand there were well armed parents and off duty police in Uvalde willing to do what the local police couldn’t. But the police, either disarmed them or prevented anyone from entering the building. And it took a single border patrol agent with a borrowed shotgun to do what a squad sized unit hesitated to do.
There were plenty of armed citizens (among them 8 well trained military veterans, armed and ready to go and well trained and experienced in finding and eliminating a threat in buildings and in hostage rescue) and (13) off-duty police at Uvalde, they wanted to go in but police stopped them. The police did disarm some of them. There was one lady that was not armed that had been initially stopped from going in after her kids, she was handcuffed initially but they un-cuffed her and when they did she hopped a fence and went in and got her kids out safely along with some others. The off duty border patrol agent borrow a shotgun from his barber (he was getting a haircut at the time) and upon his arrival he talked two of the cops outside into not stopping him and into joining him, those three entered and bought out dozens safely.
In the mean while, back at the hand sanitizer dispenser…
Making sure their fly is zipped up and practising those big words “alleged”, “perpetrators”, and “delicatessen” for the interview.
yep,..the funeral director across the street witnessed the accident..saw the gunman enter the school…got his gun and tried to follow him but was ordered away by the cops…
Using this guys numbers: 1.2×330,000,000=396,000,000 guns – probably a bit low but not too far off. The “spate” of mass shootings he mentions is conveniently undefined so I don’t know if he means the last three, or ten or twenty. Let’s be conservative and say he means the last 100. Those 100 shootings represent 0.0000253% of those 396,000,000 guns and something on the order of 0.00008% of gun owners. These events are extreme outliers and have nothing whatsoever to do with the overwhelming majority of guns and gun owners in the country.
People like this guy have, for years, been claiming that it is the availability of guns that drives the crime but they never admit that it is a tiny, tiny fraction of guns and gun owners involved. Whether the good guy with a gun stops a crime or not, (and, note, they never mention crimes stopped without shots fired or without death involved) the simple truth is that very few guns and very few people are involved in violent crime. You could take 99% of the guns in this country away and there would still be about 4 million of them in circulation – enough for 25 or 30 times all the gun crimes committed in a year. There is no rational way to establish that the availability of guns drives crime when there are thousands of times as many guns as there are gun crimes. It is like claiming that the availability of matches causes arson.
From the linked article Durham says:
“That moment taught me to question anyone who might easily say, “I would lay down my life for my fellow man.” I’m ashamed to admit it, but I had a hard time doing that for my own family.”
This is not a statement of a parent or a man. This is the statement of a coward who has no value for life. Someone I find as low as a child molester since he would not stop that.
Since he is supposed to be a clinical mental health counselor maybe he can explore why he such a failing as a human being. He should no better that his cowardice is not indicative of all others in society.
” I’m ashamed to admit it, but I had a hard time doing that for my own family.”
Sounds like The Broward Coward of those magnificent law enforcement officers from Uvalde.
No, Trooper, he apparently places a VERY high value on his life . . . his family’s lives, not so much.
“Sheepdog”, this guy is not. Also not a very smart dog. I think we can safely conclude that he is a full-on sheeple – no brains, no courage, no courage of his convictions. And I’d hate to be his kid.
Lots of great information in some of these comments but it doesn’t matter, like Kathy Hochul gun banners don’t need no stinking facts.
There’s nothing you can do or say that will ever cause them to change their unrelenting desire to disarm you and ensure only the government has guns.
It’s a waste of time.
Trooper,
“I’m ashamed to admit it, but I had a hard time doing that for my own family.”
> This is not a statement of a parent or a man. This is the statement of a coward who has no value for life. <
Can any of us state with certainty how we would react in a potential life-threatening situation? I admit to struggling with the expectations of my reaction ever since I decided to arm myself.
I'll give credit to the author for following the intruder and preparing to confront him hiding behind the door, especially since he was unarmed.
I'd like to think that I would do the same if under threat (I have no children but I do have a wife and my own self to protect). But how do I know that I wouldn't just cower in place if the intruder wasn't directly threatening me?
The Mighty Bosstones' "The Impression That I Get" was a tune that often ran through my head when I was diagnosed and during treatment for cancer:
"Look at the tested and think 'there but for the Grace go I' — might be a coward, I'm afraid of what I might find out."
Can any of us state with certainty how we would react in a potential life-threatening situation?
Having spent over three years doing EXACTLY that with a life expectancy of 30 seconds for that entire time I CAN state with certainty how I will react to a potentially life-threatening situation… Some things just cannot be unlearned. IF you live in fear, how can you enjoy life?
“Some things just cannot be unlearned.”
But can they be learned?
Going to the shooting range, and asking someone to come up behind me randomly and yell “BOO!” doesn’t seem like it would end well.
FormerParatrooper has the advantage on me — my nick would be “Former Corporate Drone Who Has Lived a Quiet Uneventful Life.”
You are right standing at a range will not help you learn anything BUT there are courses around the country that DO train “current AND former corporate drones, assembly line workers, housewives, waiters/waitresses and countless others with active shooter drills, combat style courses and live fire drills (with blanks of course). This enables an individual to condition themselves to the reality of being shot at and how to react. It cannot, however, remove the FEAR of injury/death, that requires a mindset that only the individual can come to terms with. I have been shot, I survived, healing can be a long uncomfortable process, (but you CAN survive a gunshot injury). I live with REAL pain daily because I refuse to cloud my thought processes with narcotics that at best only mask that pain, lastly you must overcome the fear of dying (that’s a big one).
Thank you, Maxx.
most people who carry guns will never have to use them….
Frank, the day that I received my CWP, I shared the good news with a friend who had helped me through the process.
He said the same thing — “let’s hope we never have to use it.”
let’s hope we never have to use it.”
My sentiments exactly
alien,
I guess my view is that, UNTIL you are “there”, NO ONE truly knows how they will react. What I reacted to was that this guy was questioning his reaction when . . . he hadn’t actually “been there”. I am certain about my convictions; I cannot guarantee that “in extremis” I will react in accordance with my convictions. I could flake out, run, or cry like a Girl Scout. I don’t THINK I would, but . . . I sincerely hope that (i) I never find out the hard way, and (ii) IF I find out, I do the right thing. But I don’t “doubt” my reaction. Doubt, before the fact, certainly isn’t likely to enhance your performance at the time of crisis. And would cause ME, at least, to have some serious concerns about who I am as a person. If I’m NOT willing to confront the situation to protect my family??? I think the saying is, “Not a good look.”
Appreciate the comment, Lamp.
alien,
Wasn’t trying to attack your basic point – as ex-military friends of mine frequently say, “Don’t talk s*** until you’ve been IN the s***!” (or the old version, “You don’t know war until you’ve ‘seen the elephant’). And I heartily agree with that. And we should be careful about being judgemental about how anyone reacts, or speaks, unless we’ve “been there” ourselves. But that doesn’t mean I have to respect some limp-d*** who blatantly says he values his own life over that of his family. IF you get deep in the s***, and find you can’t hack it . . . well at least you got there, and gave it a shot. But if you decide for yourself BEFORE you get there that you ‘can’t do it’ . . . I’m sure as hell not going to rely on you.
Lamp, I didn’t take your remarks as an attack. I appreciate your sharing of your perspective and, on further reflection, I’d have to agree that the writer Durham’s actions were foolhardy and not brave.
As I reflect further, I realize that I’d been tested in one situation 30 years ago when a road-rager tried to pull me out of my car to administer a physical beating. (Yeah, I know — it was an old car with manual locks and I neglected to secure it.) While he had a grip on my left arm and was trying to pull me from my seatbelt, I reacted by shouting at him “I AM ARMED!” and used my right hand to open the glove box and grab my revolver. Once he caught a glimpse of it, he released me and ran back to his truck. I hadn’t even gotten a chance to remove it from the holster nor point it at him.
Damn, it’s strange how memory works — or doesn’t. I hadn’t thought of that situation in detail for many years.
Perhaps I should give myself some credit for not freezing up, realizing the danger and reacting to protect myself.
BTW, have you found the one honest man yet?
you’re standing there in your classroom with your kids huddled behind you…what are you going to do…use harsh language?
use harsh language?
Can’t do that, might hurt someone’s feelz.
“I’ll give credit to the author for following the intruder and preparing to confront him hiding behind the door, especially since he was unarmed. ”
I give him credit for being stupid.
What if the intruder had not run away, was actually behind the door and armed with a gun or knife and intended violence. The guy would have delivered himself to the bad guy, unarmed thus with no chance at all and a quick stab or trigger pull by the bad guy and this stupid man would have gone down then whats going to happen to the family? That bad guy was in the bedroom, the run down the hall could have been a ploy to draw the man from the room to leave the family defenseless and get the man alone to take care of him first. The guy wasn’t thinking, he was being stupid.
He should have ushered his wife into the kids room, locked the door, barricade it if possible, and hope police arrive before the bad guy can get through the door (if that’s what the bad guy had tried to do), try to get away out a window if possible. He could have done that. Instead he leaves his wife in one room, the kids in the other, and leaves to hunt the guy down not knowing where he actually is and would have delivered himself into injury or death if the bad guy had intended violence, thus removing a ‘blocking’ opportunity for all of them that may have had a better chance had the bad guy been armed and intent upon violence.
So the bad guy ran away though. This guy is lucky, and stupid. That was not bravery, it was stupid. The brave thing to have done was secure the family and himself. You do not confront a home intruder without a firearm, if you do confront them without a firearm it fails in over 85% of cases.
That was supposed to say “insert thumbs-up emoji here.”
(Lesson learned: don’t use the “greater than/less than” symbols or the system thinks it’s a command)
I can’t get over how stupid this guy was.
The bad guy could have had a partner too, are maybe more than one partner and they were elsewhere in the house.
The bad guy had come into their bedroom. Home intruders rarely do that if its a quiet burglary, but intruders intending violence do it all the time. This could have been the guys first time, and he was intent upon violence but decided not to do it then. I guarantee you he had watched the house for a bit before going in, probably for a few days to get an idea of the routine schedule and then he came in when they were home not for a burglary but for probably violence and either chickened out and ran or his planned violence scenario was ruined when they woke up and then he ran. He was probably armed with something.
I know what this guy is trying to do, hes trying to give the impression that one can scare intruders off by confronting them like he did so a gun isn’t needed. He is so very wrong. If his story is true, then all he did was be stupid, place his life and the lives of his family in more danger, and he got ‘lottery winning’ lucky – and his case was the rare exception.
get a dog..or an alarm system…or both….shooting somebody is the last resort….
Each man and woman has the potential. Don’t sell yourself short.
You took the step to be armed. You know what you are armed for, self defense.
Each man and woman has the potential
Unfortunately, “potential” does not conflate to ability, willingness/courage or success nor does it overcome self-doubt or lack of confidence. There are a lot of people carrying concealed firearms that are imbued with a sense of security who would most likely wind up dead or seriously wounded due to hesitation/indecision and a lack of confidence.
While it doesn’t mean ability, it dies mean the potential exists, save for those who have accepted that they are powerless.
I know people who think a firearm is a talisman. I have tried to make them realize it is a last resort but they have seen more movies than they have been in difficult situations.
Alien has a good mindset, he is thinking of his ability and potential. He needs proper mentoring and I think he will be fine.
You and I have been tested. We know our strengths and weaknesses. We know the reality.
The problem with gunms is they have to have someone holding them. What the manufacturers need to do is make Smart Gunms that kill people all by themselves.
Some of those idiots believe THAT “Gunm” already exists…
Smart guns like that are impossible so manufacturers went with the next best thing, Mind Control Guns.
When picked up they turn totally normal people into a mass shooter.
Knife Attacker Shot By Armed Condo Resident > https://concealednation.org/2022/08/knife-attacker-shot-by-armed-condo-resident/
Its a good thing a good guy with a gun came along to help his neighbor, the ball bat didn’t deter the attacker. Verbal warnings and use of the bat and retreating didn’t help, the attacker kept coming, It was not until the defender fired shots that the attacker was deterred and fled. The criminal caught a bullet.
Among the many of criminals using knife attacks daily, most are like this where the attacker keeps coming at the victim. The goal in knife attacks is to get up close and personal, so the attacker tries to keep coming at the victim. ~1,300 victims daily across the United States. Only about ~2% of firearm armed victims are not successful in their DGU to repel the criminals knife attack, the rest successfully repel the attack by DGU with over 80% not suffering any injury.
Of those victims not armed with a firearm, over 80% are seriously wounded or killed by the criminals use of knife attack, even if armed with other ‘things’ like ball bats, hand/fists, knives.
MAKE BAD GUYS GO AWAY MOMIE … YEAH TAKE THEM OUT … THEN GUNS WILL ONLY BE IN GOOOOD PEOPLE HANDS …
GOD BLESS THE LAW-ABIDING .
The argument has never been for “more guns” because it’s not about numbers, really.
This is an argument about a different geographical distribution of the guns already out there.
The 50 people that might have carried through that mass shooting area that day, a few of whom may have been present at the time, often were not allowed to be carrying at that location. And if you need a gun while you’re out and about having 20,000 of them at home isn’t useful.
There are at least two flaws on this trend of thinking. Stats show that numerous times per day good guys with a gun do stop bad guys with a gun. Second, anyone committing a crime with a gun is subject to arrest, conviction and confiscation.
The media is loath to report those items and that includes potential mass shootings that are prevented before they escalate. Typical Leftist false reasoning.
SHe is saying what I’ve been saying seemingly forever and it all seems so bloody obvious or that guy LUCKY DICKINS would not have been made out to be some kind of National Hero DICKINS will now be selling his LUCKY DICKINS Urban shoot-em-down system, writing a book and selling the Film Rights Starring the latest Hollywood hero [maybe ALEC BALDWIN??] and by that process probably getting a good few wannabe’s killed.
If so many good guys with guns are stopping bad guys with guns [not counting the official GOOD guys like the police] why do we not hear more about them? Where are the iNDEPENDENT statistics instead of opinions and unsubstantiated statements.? . I can’t find them, and I can find statistics on just about every aspect on American life. Or do you think that there is some nefarious plot abroad to prevent such publication of those statistics?.
You can lead an idiot to knowledge, but you can’t make him think.
You asked why you don’t hear more about good guys with guns if they’re so frequent. It’s unfortunate that you’re not asking seriously because I’ll answer it for you.
If someone tries to rob me and I lift my shirt revealing a pistol, I’ve prevented a robbery and that’s not news worthy. If someone tries to shoot up a place and a good guy caps him before he can kill anyone, that’s only worthy of local news. A crime will always be more news worthy than a crime prevented. A mass shooting will always be more news worthy than a mass shooting prevented. The answer to why the good guy doesn’t get the news is really REALLY obvious. 12 dead innocent bystanders and a several hour long police stand off will ALWAYS dominate over 1 dead bad guy and an incident over in less than 5 minuets.
It’s a shame that you don’t come back and read the answers to your questions. But you’re not here to learn or gain perspective. All of your questions are asked ironically in a vain attempt to lord your supposed moral superiority.
It’s also impossible to know how much worse a shooting (or any crime) would have been if the good guy with a gun wasn’t there. Therefore, it’s impossible to run actual statistics on it
“I can find statistics on just about every aspect on American life”:
Yet your obvious ignorance about ANYTHING American is absolutely astonishing.
Anyway, let me give you a starting point, simply (for the simple minded) type in your SEARCH box the words “INDEPENDANT RESEARCH ON DEFENSIVE GUN USE” should be EASY enough since your complaint was (quote) “Where are the iNDEPENDENT statistics instead of opinions and unsubstantiated statements.? . I can’t find them,” (end quote) and one of the first things you will “FIND” is this: According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on defensive gun use has found that Americans use their firearms defensively between 500,000 and 3 million times each year. There’s good reason to believe that most defensive gun uses are never reported to law enforcement, much less picked up by local or national media outlets.
I did this with full KNOWLEDGE that you are a one-sided LIBERAL TROLL who revels in the thought that YOU are fomenting (look it up) chaos and discontent but that is about as far from being factual as your inane (look it up) posts and alleged knowledge of ALL THINGS AMERICAN. In fact, the only thing you have succeeded in doing in to prove yourself to be one of the most ignorant, moronic, ill informed, mouth breathers on the planet. Anyway, have a nice day.
@Albert L J Hall
Sometimes people are ignorant for a subject because they simply do not know. But you, you are willfully and naturally ignorant.
Less than 1% of cases where an ordinary armed citizen (not armed security or law enforcement) that stop mass shootings make the news somewhere. Its because its not sensational enough because the killer did not get shot by the armed citizen. Armed citizens actually fire in less than 5% of these cases – not all of their shooting when they do fire is to shoot the killer but rather to delay or suppress the killer in place in a manner so as to not endanger others by engaging in a moving fire fight, and they do this to keep the killer suppressed to keep them from establishing complete kill zone dominance while covering those innocents who are escaping and to keep the shooter delayed giving more time for police to arrive. And when they do not fire they have brandished to present and confront the killer who then most times runs away or commits suicide or sometimes will continue attempts but doesn’t for long fear of being shot by the armed citizen.
Even a simple basic search would have revealed these cases in 2022 so far that did make the news:
Greenwood, Indiana, July 17, 2022 – you know this one, Eli Dicken so I will not go into it.
Charleston, West Virginia, May 25, 2022 – A man started firing, what was reported as an ‘AR-15 style firearm’ into a crowd. Fortunately, an armed citizen was there to stop this mass shooting with a hand gun.
South Fulton, Georgia, May 3, 2022 – Near a ‘Stop the Violence’ rally a teenager started firing a gun at multiple people. Two armed citizens engaged the shooter and shot him thus ending a mass shooting. Something the news didn’t reveal though is that the people the teen was shooting at included a number of anti-gun people that were going to attend the rally, they were saved by the ‘good guys with guns’ they claim do not exist.
Phenix City, AL, April 13, 2022 – Two suspects went to a truck shop upset over a dispute from earlier in the day. One got out of his vehicle and begin to shoot at four people standing outside the business. One of the intended victims, and armed citizen, returned fire and stopped a mass shooting.
I posted a few more elsewhere in this articles comments section. But ordinary law abiding armed citizens (not armed security or law enforcement) have stopped thousands of mass shootings over time and unless you dig into police reports and blotters, and find the news that’s not reported by the news publicly (aggregated news feeds), and dig into the underlying data behind statistics in various studies (e.g. the Texas study used by the NY Times), you never hear about it and its not represented in statistics all because the armed citizen did not actually shoot the killer and kill them.
Note: in the Texas study used by the NY Times to claim its rare for an armed citizen to stop a mass shooting … in reality the study is based upon the killers shot by the armed citizen. But it does not account for the armed citizens that stopped the attacks by brandishing or shooting to suppress without shooting the attacker, when these actions are included as they also stopped mass shootings its not 3% of armed citizens who stop mass shooters but rather 53.3% ….
53.3% of these 433 active shooter attacks were stopped by ordinary armed citizens with guns.
1.6% of these 433 active shooter attacks were stopped by armed security.
0.69% of these 433 active shooter attacks were stopped by off duty police officers.
In 25 of those cases the armed citizen had to stop the same killer twice. This is because when first confronted by the armed citizen the killer ran away, but before police arrived the killer came back to try again and the armed citizen stopped the same killer a second time.
NYS state gin owners know they risk prison time if they stop a violent attack, look at how the DA went after the bodega worker that was attacked and defended himself from a convicted felon.
Booger, thanks for taking the time to give us those many examples of DGU. That was inspiring. I worry I may not have a steady hand if I were forced to pull my weapon. I’m sure being scared shitle$$ and keeping composure are incompatible. Those who have survived combat perhaps could explain it to me.
Gun control laws only affect the law-abiding. Laws don’t stop the outlaw. Only a gun will stop a mass shooter. Either by his own hand or a gun in the hands of someone else.
He says ‘The incident in the Indiana mall” is mentioned, then he refutes that it could happen again.
The NY state gun incident at the supermarket was the state the SCOTUS used to throw out the vague “May Issue” gun permit system, that basically bans almost everyone carrying a gun in public.
They keep using places that are as “Gun Free” as they can legally, then claim they are the example you should look at.
You know that nut who shot people on the NYC subway recently? He also resided in Philadelphia PA. at one point.
He didn’t try and shoot up a train there, though the system says you can’t carry on the train. You know why? Many refuse to follow those rules, and might of gotten filled with bullets for trying it.
So he took it to NYC where his chance of getting shot by a legal carrier was essentially zero.
Mass shooter just stopped in Montenegro, could have killed more than 10. Armed citizen put him down.
Read your NRA magazine there’s a lot of good guys with guns
Yes, every issue has stories of the good guy with a gun and these are only some of the stories. American Rifleman can only publish so many per issue.
All I have to say is that someone must have taken Math 97: How to Lie With Statistics, in college.
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