Fifth Circuit Finalizes Ruling In Favor of Plaintiff in Cargill v. Garland, Legalizes Bump Stocks in Three States

By
Dan Zimmerman
-
93
◀Previous Post
Next Post▶

In January the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the ATF’s Trump-mandated bump stock ban was unconstitutional. Today, in a 13-3 ruling, the Court of Appeals finalized its ruling, mandating that the case — Cargill v. Garland — be remanded to the lower court to reverse its decision [that upheld the ban] and enter a judgement in favor of the plaintiff, Michael Cargill.

As the court majority wrote . . .

Many commentators argue that non-mechanical bump stocks contribute to firearm deaths and that the Final Rule is good public policy. We express no opinion on those arguments because it is not our job to determine our nation’s public policy. Thatsolemn responsibility lies with the Congress, and our task is confined to deciding cases and controversies, which requires us to apply the law as Congress has written it.

In defining the term machinegun, Congress referred to the mechanism by which the gun’s trigger causes bullets to be fired. Policy judgments aside,we are bound to apply that mechanical definition. And applying that definition to a semi-automatic rifle equipped with a non-mechanical bump stock, we conclude that such a weapon is not a machinegun for purposes of the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act. Chevron deference likely has no role here either because the Government waived it or because it does not apply to the Government’s interpretation of a statute imposing criminal penalties. Finally, even if the statute were ambiguous—which it is not—the rule of lenity would require that we interpret the statute in Cargill’s favor. As Justice Holmes framed it years ago, “it is reasonable that a fair warning should be given to the world in language that the common world will understand, of what the law intends to do if a certain line is passed.” McBoyle, 283 U.S. at 27. We cannot say that the National Firearms Act and Gun Control Act give that fair warning that possession of a non-mechanical bump stock is a crime.

The Final Rule promulgated by the ATF violates the APA. We therefore REVERSE the judgment of the district court and REMAND with instructions to enter judgment for Cargill.

And with that, the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals has now legalized bump stocks in Texas, Louisiana and Mississippi. You can read the ruling here.

Three other circuits have upheld the ATF’s ban. The Fifth Circuit’s order officially creates a Circuit Court split, setting up an almost certain review by the Supreme Court which could go much farther than just bump stocks, possibly limiting the extent to which regulatory agencies and the administrative state are free to “interpret,” alter, and create laws. That, of course, is actually Congress’s job, if you believe what the Constitution says.

Watch this space.

MORE: As Michael Cargill noted in his tweet at the top, the ATF has not yet requested a stay of this order. But that doesn’t mean they won’t. They may have been too busy commemorating the 35th anniversary of the Waco siege yesterday to jump right on that. or maybe their strategy is different.

As TTAG contributing attorney LKB pointed out in the comments and expands below, there’s still much, much more to come.

As for bump stocks being legal in the Fifth Circuit, they are likely going to be, and any indictment issued in the Fifth Circuit will likely be ordered dismissed (but the government can appeal that and keep the case alive while they continue appealing the Fifth Circuit’s ruling). But it’s too early to tell people it’s A-OK to have/make bump stocks.

Issuance of the mandate doesn’t mean the entire case is over. DOJ still has at least a month to file a cert petition, and it also can ask for an extension (a request that will always be granted for Uncle Sam).

In this case, the issuing of the mandate just ends the case in the Fifth Circuit and returns jurisdiction to the district court to enter final relief (injunction, declaratory relief, award of costs and fees, etc.).  The fact that DoJ didn’t ask for a stay of the mandate means nothing. It’s not like there is a judgment that the plaintiff would be free to start executing on, or an injunction that will instantly go into effect.  

Once that order is issued, DOJ can request a stay of that order and can can appeal from it, but that appeal will go nowhere with the Fifth Circuit given the en banc opinion. DoJ could then theoretically file a cert petition from that order as well, as well as appeal the likely denial of a stay.

This may well be their play…delay, delay, delay. It’ll take months for the district court to enter final relief. DOJ can then file an appeal of that, which will likely take another year to resolve, at which time it files a cert petition (another 6-18 month delay, unless of course DOJ files for cert in the current matter, and SCOTUS had granted cert and affirmed.

Meanwhile, who knows what will happen in Congress in the meantime? Might Congress pass a bump stock ban, especially if there is another high profile mass shooting? Or a change of personnel on SCOTUS?

Remember also, the case has now been sent back to Judge David Ezra — who found against the plaintiff before, and unlike Judge Benitez, Judge Ezra is unlikely going to want to fast-track issuing an order. Indeed, I expect him to sit on it for months, and only do anything if and when plaintiffs mandamus him to enter a final order.

◀Previous Post
Next Post▶

RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR

93 COMMENTS

    • I reside in one of those states and I have as much interest in a bump stock contrapition as I did before the Vegas tragedy and I do mean tragedy. For me when it comes to wasting ammo it’s either full auto or binary. The latter was kept out of congressional hands via the bump stock mandate. Unfortunately headline reading bump stock loving knee jerks who were tripping over each other to bash POTUS DJT forgot to ask for a legal opinion in regards to the mandate from A. Gottieb.

      • *Breaking*

        Chicago’s Lori Lightfoot has *lost* the mayoral primary, so she is ineligible to run in the general election… 🙂

        • “Chicago’s Lori Lightfoot has *lost* the mayoral primary, so she is ineligible to run in the general election…”

          Gloating is uncharitable.

          Fortunately, you can’t see me.

        • So, my comment doesn’t even get modded this time, but immediately removed without notification or even a cautionary warning explaining *why* your comment was modded? Posting comments here is becoming more and more like roulette…

          Are we still doing this, TTAG?

        • Kick that beach to the curb! And, hope that her replacement has at least half a brain, and half a soul. The whole cultural revolution thing needs to die.

        • I told you guys Lightfoot was done more then a week ago. She came in a distant third. I can eat humble pie because I said it would be Vallas vs Chuy Garcia.

          Even with Chicago being a sanctuary city and Illinois being a sanctuary state, the Hispanics were too scared to vote. Being bluntly honest some of them have been here for 40 years and don’t speak a word of English.

          Vallas is just awful and Brandon Johnson came out of nowhere (nobody even knows his DOB) so someone is seriously backing him with big money.
          Could that be JB Pritzker? Hmm?
          It’s going to be the same shit, different 4 years for Chicago.

          The one good thing is while they were giving their reasons to be mayor, both said that they would get rid of CPD Superintendent David Brown who was in way over his head so perhaps they can get a “professional” Superintendent.

          After a hot summer weekend and many shootings Brown would have a press conference shaking his head and saying “This has to stop!”
          Yeah Brown, that’s your job, you are supposed to make it stop.

          Good Riddance to Lightfoot and Brown but now we get the oh so incompetent Paul Vallas unless JB buys the race for Brandon Johnson.

          Wow, I didn’t get moderated, that’s shocking.

    • Trump is not, he could careless about guns. It’s just a talking point. Even John Boch will tell you it was all lip service ie: the 2nd Amendment Board he was on.

      The only thing you have to look forwards to Trump in terms of gun rights is the possible banning of suppressors and all semi autos. Of course Republicans will cheer this on as always.

        • There is a history with all this. The Dems actively pursue destroying this country while Reps sit back and let it happen. Things *might* be changing a bit with all the new blood that has come to Washington in recent years though. Boebert has certainly shown herself able to stand her ground. Cruz seems to have transformed into something worthwhile since the 2016 election. But the conservatives in this country have watched in astonishment as the Republican Right snatched defeat from the jaws of victory time and time again. It’s possible that the insanity from the left over the last three years has made some on the right finally see the light. But many voters have been burned.

      • speaking of the BS.. you sure are shovelling it Fast and Furiously.

        Trump never did “mandate” a bump stock ban. He did apparently tell BATF, that eminently corrupt organisation, to “fix it” but that was after the Las Vegas massacre in which FBI, I believe it was, “claimed” that bump stocks were used, and provided as “proof” a few very staged photos (I’m a professional photographer as well as a shooter, and know the difference between a place where lots of gunfire has gone downrange, and a “set” dressed for the cameraman. This was clearly the latter. Everything neatly laid out evenly spaced, lined up, brass in neat mounds on the floor… never gonna happen in a combat zone. Further, FBI denied BATF any opportunity t=o examine ANY of the firearms “found” in that high perch alledgedly used as the gun nest.

        Trump KNEW he lacked authority to BAN anything.He knows he cannot “make law” he can only enforce it once Congress have made it.

        • Tionico — “I believe it was, “claimed” that bump stocks were used, and provided as “proof” a few very staged photos” — have you ever listened to the audio of the Las Vegas shooting? Sure sounds like a bump stock.

        • @Innocent Bystander – don’t bother, these conspiracy nuts manufacture their own reality. He probably thinks he was in on faking the moon landing too.

          FWIW though, yeah, it rather clearly sounded like a bump stock.

      • There might be some here that like to write books. I’m not one of them. There are others for sure. Don’t read too much into that.

    • Attention prndll…Let’s see which would you prefer…A POTUS DJT mandate zeroing in on a contraption that could be overturned as seen or a list of knee jerk Laws passed by congressional majority, laws that would include all sorts of stuff advertised on this forum? After you answer the way I know you will apologize for doing nothing but lending a helping hand to democRats.

      • Anti-gun laws passed by Congress are MUCH harder to deal with and last alot longer. This isn’t so much about being pro-Trump as the way our government works.

        The Democrats are operating on a level of mental illness that can only translate to damned-if-you-do and damned-if-you-don’t. The ONLY way to properly deal with them is to remove them electorally. Anything else and they will have you chasing your own tail.

      • Or Trump pushed to unconstitutionally extend executive power for bump stocks, which created a precedent that led to BATFE arbitrarily making up rules about personally manufactured firearms and pistol braces.

  4. “In defining the term machinegun, Congress referred to the mechanism by which the gun’s trigger causes bullets to be fired. Policy judgments aside,we are bound to apply that mechanical definition. And applying that definition to a semi-automatic rifle equipped with a non-mechanical bump stock, we conclude that such a weapon is not a machinegun for purposes of the Gun Control Act and National Firearms Act.

    Seems this defining moment would apply to FRT’s.
    We’ll see.

  5. There will be a problem in states that “double banned” them too, I guess, even if they are legal from an ATF standpoint.

    The other question, will the Republicans and NRA say “hooray, freedom, this was a travesty, ATF power grab!” (note, I don’t think I have heard Republican leadership address it or call for it to be undone) or will they join with the Dems and try to make it official in Congress in the next bipartisan gun bill?

    • Unsympathetic victims, bump stock owners, so not likely.

      Politicians see this as a convenient way out of an icky predicament.

  6. An injunction, temporary or permanent, is not required to allow the ATF to appeal the ruling.

    DOJ is not likely to accept rejection. I can see the ATF not requesting an injunction as a means of creating a bathtub of enforcement that will create chaos when the ATF prevails at the SC.

      • “Huh? Sam? You lost me, why would the AFT prevail at the SC?”

        Not saying that; the ATF might surmise victory, thus the gap is created to permit retaliation after their supposed victory.

      • “SCOTUS can decline to hear an appeal from ATF. All SCOTUS needs to do is look at the split.”

        Yes, SCOTUS can decline; however, the justices are not immune to politics (especially Roberts).
        Refusing to hear the govt, and allowing the split to stand only add to the clamor to expand the court, set age limits, and ignite the base.

        • “Refusing to hear the govt, and allowing the split to stand only add to the clamor to expand the court, set age limits, and ignite the base.”

          That will be the start of the shit show.
          Load the court and certain people will have had enough. Me included.

        • “expand the court”

          Text and tradition holds that each federal circuit court of appeals should be overseen by a Supreme Court Justice.

          The court should be expanded, the number of judicial circuits has increased to 13.

          “Each of the thirteen federal circuit courts is assigned one Supreme Court Justice who then considers certain appeals (e.g., emergency requests and other matters) from his or her assigned circuit while other aspects of the case are still pending. The Chief Justice of the United States is responsible, under 28 U.S.C. 42, for allotting circuit justices “in vacation.”

          http://myattorneyusa.com/supreme-court-circuit-justice-assignments

          The number of justices is set by Congress, and there’s actually been more than nine justices in the past.

        • miner. Here’s hoping the gop is listening. 4 more conservative justices would be great.

        • “historic baggage“

          That’s a sanitized way to refer to centuries of government/Biblically endorsed forced enslavement of millions of People.

        • miner. Do you know a slave? Anybody that has been a slave? Do you still blame the German people for what happened in ww2? The democrats for rounding up American citizens at gun point and putting them in concentration camps because of their race? The dems also brought us the KKK.

          You seem to be a hate filled person miner. Let it go.

        • “Let it go“

          Those that refuse to learn the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.

  9. I think I might know where my bumpstock is that I lost in that boating accident. And I need to make a plan on taking a drive to Louisiana, Mississippi, or Texas. For some training.
    big (smile)

    • Don’t worry, Trump is also coming for your suppressors and all semi autos. But keep voting for Republicans.

      • Did you just assume someone’s political affiliation? lol.

        What is your big brain gonna do when you find out a majority of people in the US don’t actually vote?

        • “Trump gave us Bruen.”

          And, what else is left of his legacy?

          I think it is time to stop putting our ambitions in a second Trump administration. He will be a lame duck president immediately after being sworn-in. His term will either be a vengeance parade, and/or nothing much. Trump will have the same support in the House and Senate as he had before, which amounted to about zero. Trump will again have no “coattails” of consequence (as we saw in 2022). The level of revilement toward Trump has only grown.

          Unfortunately, it is an historical norm that presidential candidates too often cause a loss at the state level. While it is hoped that replacements will be as effective as the former incumbent, generally, things decline overall. Right now, DeSantis is the entire bench for Republicrats. Ungood bellyfeel.

        • I’m all for dumping Trump. But let’s not ignore what he did for us. Without him we would have had hillary.

          And never forget that the biden is doing his very best to tank the economy. Enough people get desperate and things can change.

        • I would much prefer President Trump. When gasoline was a $1.35 a gallon, and this country was energy independent. With nearly 11, 000 new oil workers.

          And the russians were still afraid of us, and they never would have invaded the Ukraine. And the Nord Stream pipeline would still be operating under the Trump administration.

          We haven’t been this close to a nuclear War since the Kennedy administration. But yes, I know so many want their legalized marijuana intoxication in public. At least you’ll be able to still smoke dope after the holocaust.

        • And the russians were still afraid of us, and they never would have invaded the Ukraine.

          because Trump understood their position on NATO and the Ukraine, and acted wisely relative to that. He understood the danger to Russia with nukes and other war toys lined up right on his border. He stood against the expansion of NATO, particularly with respect to Russia’s border. I am convinced that stand was a major driving factor behind all the impeachment/cancelling that the dems orchestrated against DJT. They all stood to gain far too much to let Trump ace them out of their war profits, worldwide manipulation, etc. Trump was much more a nationalist than a globalist. That threatened them. I am also convinced this whole WooFlew thing was a stunt to bury Trump if he was reelected. In case they couldn’t do it with the impeach circuses and the election sham.

        • Sam, I loved President Trump but I agree his time has passed. He kicked ass and if it weren’t for that bastard Fauci our nation would be screaming along. I can’t say who I want to lead us just yet. Let the games begin!

        • “And, what else is left of his legacy?”

          A conservative majority in the Supreme Court? Roe v. Wade overturned? That’s the most consequential legacy of any president in my lifetime. I suppose the USMCA and the Abraham Accords are still around? An exposed deep state? An exposed Uniparty? The exposed Fake News media? A path forward for upcoming Republicans that are sick of the Uniparty? Demonstrating that we can have a secure border, even without the cooperation of Congress? Showing that you don’t have to automatically support constant war just because you’re a Republican? The Puppet-Harris Admin set about dismantling Trump’s policies on day one, but it’s undeniable that Trump permanently changed the game.

          There’s a reason the Bush and McCain families essentially came out as Democrats. There’s a reason ¡Jeb! and noted snake, Paul Ryan are already running around campaigning against Trump. They aren’t doing DeSantis any favors by endorsing him. Most Republicans now despise the remaining neocons. Trump exposed them. That’s why they hate him.

          Why did the Intel Community came together and do everything possible to take out Trump? They literally interfered in two presidential elections. Now why would they do that? Why doesn’t the media talk about the real election interference and “threat to democracy?” Personally, I think they wanted to make sure they got their war with Russia.

          I can’t believe the whining over Trump here. Take a look around. Now compare that with easy living in 2017-2019. The biggest worry was a fake story about Russian Collusion. They tried to make scandals over silly things like Trump supposedly over feeding fish in Japan. Man, we had it easy!

        • “We haven’t been this close to a nuclear War since the Kennedy administration.”

          Actually we are MUCH closer by a long shot.
          In 1953 we were at two minutes to midnight.
          That was the closet we ever were according to the Doomsday clock.
          Now we have a senile POTUS that taunts nuclear war.
          A Russian leader who knows this guys weak and gets pissed.
          So now the clock is at 1½ minutes to midnight.
          The Cuban Missile Crisis only lasted a few weeks.
          Kennedy and Brezhnev used to talk on the phone.
          In 1963 The Partial Test Ban Treaty went into effect.
          The clock was set back to 12 minutes to midnight.
          During the Cuban Missile Crisis it was at 7 minutes to midnight.
          Midnight is MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction) or WWIII.

        • “I would much prefer President Trump. When gasoline was a $1.35 a gallon“

          The last time gas was $1.35 per gallon, Democrat Bill Clinton was president.

          Under Trump, the lowest gas price was $2.24 per gallon when everyone was staying home during the Covid pandemic:

          “2017: $2.47 ($2.92 inflation-adjusted)
          2018: $2.79 ($3.24 inflation-adjusted)
          2019: $2.70 ($3.08 inflation-adjusted)
          2020: $2.24 ($2.50 inflation-adjusted)“

          https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/04/13/how-much-gas-cost-every-year-since-1978.html

          Currently gas prices here in WV are $2.79 per gallon:

          “BP in Nitro (402 4TH ST)
          BP
          BP This station is verified!
          (35)
          402 4TH ST
          Nitro, WV
          1 (304) 755-5378
          OPEN NOW: 05:00AM-12:00AM

          Station Prices
          Reported Gas Price
          Regular $2.79
          Midgrade
          Premium $3.09
          14 hours ago

          https://www.gasbuddy.com/station/16299

          Looks like Democratic president Joseph Biden isn’t doing too bad, that’s the same price Donald Trump had in 2018, almost 6 years ago.

  10. Never give up fighting. Because the anti civil tights gun grabber will.
    Thank you to President George HW Bush and thank you to President Donald J Trump.

    • Lol Trump is the reason we are fighting for bumpstocks and possibly all semi autos. Talk about battered wife syndrome.

      • You are only about the soft things. The easy things. You are not about the difficult things. Things that are hard to achieve without hard work and sacrifice.

        Donald Trump was hosting interracial and gay weddings in the early 90s. During the Bush years. Long before anyone else was even thinking about it. But that is not good enough for you.

        He’s never going to legalize drugs. Thats all you really care about. He saw how the drugs destroyed his older brother. But you can enjoy your drug utopia in San Francisco, Seattle, Philadelphia, etc. All run by thre gun grabbing anti-civil rights democrats.

        • “Donald Trump was hosting interracial and gay weddings in the early 90s“

          Yes, Donald Trump is all about LGBTQrights, including their right to use whatever bathroom they feel is most appropriate:

          “But Mr. Trump is far more accepting of sexual minorities than his party’s leaders have been. On Thursday, he startled some Republicans by saying on NBC’s “Today” show that he opposed a recently passed North Carolina law that prohibits people from using public bathrooms that do not correspond to the gender they were born with, striking down a Charlotte ordinance.

          Transgender people should “use the bathroom they feel is appropriate,” Mr. Trump said, putting him at odds with a majority of Republicans in North Carolina.“

          https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html

      • @TheBSonTTAG

        “Lol Trump is the reason we are fighting for bumpstocks and possibly all semi autos. Talk about battered wife syndrome.”

        Yes, Trump banned bump stocks and talked about red flag type stuff. And So? Every president since Kennedy has done something with guns and red flag type stuff just in different aspects. Trump did bump stocks not really because of what happened, but more because of the outrage from the anti-gun sector and he had made certain concessions during his campaign to look at guns stuff juts like every presidential candidate since Kennedy has done and this is the chip the anti-gun wanted to cash in to get their concession due. Trump made those concessions the same as every president since Kennedy has done in some aspect.

        Red flag stuff….every president since Kennedy has done something in some aspect for red flag type stuff. Sometimes its money allocated in a bill for something to do with mental health or medical care, sometimes its hidden in bills for crime prevention programs, sometimes its supporting various states bills for states who enact more overt red flag stuff. Sometimes its laws that can be applied in certain cases, since you mention “battered wife syndrome” then for example, the ‘Violence Against Women Act (VAWA)’ originally passed in 1994 and re-authorized in 2021.

        In actuality – red flag law type stuff is all over the place and in different forms and aspects already just called different things and has been for many years. Its just become more known as ‘Red Flag Laws’ in the society spotlight more recently because anti-gun started pushing for it for gun control purposes and they started driving women’s groups to do the same (which resulted in the the ‘Violence Against Women Act (VAWA)’ being reauthorized). In reality, all 50 states in their laws and even in federal law, there are collections of laws that can be applied that have the same effect as a ‘single Red Flag’ type law for everything that does with endangering self or others and even removing access to firearms – these have existed broadly for all 50 states since the 1950’s. Anti-gun wants to make it seem as if its something new to ‘solve a problem’ and use it to focus on gun-control, in reality its been done since the 1950’s in the states just under other titles and called different things and no one made a big deal out of it.

        • And not to forget that exception to the fourth amendment called ‘The Community Caretaker Exception’ is also a red flag type thing as well, it just needs a court order and valid justification but can be used to do the same things do the same things the anti-gun want now in their red flag laws.

          The difference though for what anti-gun wants is the ability to do it without a court order and valid justification – they want to be able to ‘declare’ its a ’emergency’ in any aspect. This is very dangerous, it would enable the ability to simply enter a persons home on any pretext of ‘danger’ excuse without cause or warrant and confiscate guns.

          Biden already tried this on a national level by having the DOJ jump into the CANIGLIA v. STROM case at SCOTUS, he had already said that ‘guns were a national health crisis and danger’ – had his DOJ succeeded in that case Biden could have started forced gun confiscation nationally under ‘The Community Caretaker Exception’ without warrant or cause simply because he said ‘guns were a national health crisis and danger’. Thankfully the SCOTUS ruled for CANIGLIA – but that’s why anti-gun want a federal red flag law, they want one without constraints of court order and valid justification and that’s the danger of a federal red flag law Biden, the democrats, and anti-gun wants – not just for guns, but also to use its foundation for anything they declare, journalist and write something the government doesn’t like well by golly Biden or some other government-entity decides you are in a ‘suicide crisis’ state so lets go to your home and confiscate your computer and drag you off to be ‘evaluated’.

          the anti-gun stuff goes far beyond guns, its the beginning of rooting tyranny into the fabric of our society.

        • “Every president since Kennedy has done something with guns and red flag type stuff just in different aspects.”

          You just don’t seem to get it. Every president who doesn’t do as I like is a nudnick, and shouldn’t be honored, or voted for…ever.

          Of course, my values prevented me from voting at all since the first presidential election I was eligible to vote in; requiring me to always write-in my own name each time.

          Make love, not war
          Give peace a chance
          Free Willie
          Free beer
          Viva Max !
          Viva Las Vegas !

    • “Because the anti civil tights gun grabber will.”

      Not likely. The Left is bent on burning the nation down, and creating an elitist utopia. They have been at it, against the odds, since at least the Wilson administration.

      As is said, Leftists play the long game. While our eyes are on protecting the Second Amendment, they use “banning” as cover for putting the industry out of business. Those currently having guns will die out, and without an industry to manufacture firearms, the Second Amendment is gutted.

      Keep close watch on the EU. They can demand that any nation wanting to do business with the EU must disarm their populace. If the entire european market is shut off to America, there will arise sufficient votes to repeal 2A.

        • “Sorry about that. I meant to say they will never give up.”

          Aaaaahhhhh.

          Roger that!

          (of course, I never make mistakes)

      • even if “lawfully repealed” te right will stand as it is a natural right not subject to the whims of men, even elected ones.

        As to Europe being able to wrangle us the way they want to? Not in your lifetime.They are, most of them, already ojn the ropes and have been for decades. They NEED what we have and are. They are just sufficiently deluded to not realise it. Besides once it sinks in that it was the good ol “rah rah” USA that chumped their natural gas supply line, they just mightn’t be so eager to cut us off….. in part out of fear we could “do them” again, perhaps more painfully and completely next time.

        • “even if “lawfully repealed” te right will stand as it is a natural right not subject to the whims of men, even elected ones.”

          True, in the abstract. But, we live in the real. A natural, human, and civil right you cannot exercise is a neutralized “right”. A right you can only exercise in a bunker, or only in one’s mind, is ineffectual.

          As to the EU, which nations are on the verge, on the lip, on the edge of collapsing? (unfair question: Germany is the EU)

  11. I don’t believe this will end until Congress actually deals with it. Ditto Bruen, even Dobbs.

    So long as there are few to no penalties for the ruling class to violate American’s rights, and worse yet- no agency to enforce such unConstitutional actions, this will continue to ruin people’s lives and livelihoods. “Winning” means little if one has lost their wealth, property and reputation to reach the finish line.

    We, as the interested and affected parties, must set about convincing other Americans not yet engaged to stand up for the Constitutional restrictions on our government and demand its guarantees, whether or not a particular citizen “uses” them at present or not.

    In the big scheme of things, there are really only 2 types of Americans: Those who own firearms, and those who have not yet discovered that they someday will need one…

  13. This is a never ending war. The tyrants always want to take your rights away. They will never give up. There was plenty of resistance at the state level after the Brown versus board of education decision.

    Now the script has been flipped. The free States are in the South, and the slave States are in the North and West.

    And they demand to be called “women” and they demand to use the female changing room. So they can masturbate in front of little girls.

    • as has been proven they are more interested in putting their tool somewhere besides in their hands. Yuo leave them off far too easily.

      SO GLAD to see s number of states and even local schools considering this perversion and “just saying NO”

    • “So they can masturbate in front of little girls“

      It is a criminal act to masturbate in front of little girls, nothing has changed.

      Donald Trump is just fine with transsexuals using whatever bathroom they believe is appropriate:

      “Transgender people should “use the bathroom they feel is appropriate,” Mr. Trump said, putting him at odds with a majority of Republicans in North Carolina.“

      https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/23/us/politics/donald-trump-gay-rights.html

  14. A 13-3 Court almost certainly crafted their opinion to be viewed by SCOTUS; this is going to be Bruen 2.0.

  15. It’s a bit more complicated procedurally. While the Fifth Circuit has decisively ruled, it’s a bit premature to be popping the bubbly just yet (although certainly getting it chilled would be in order).

    ATF can still file a cert petition with SCOTUS — they have 90 days from the date of judgment (in this case, that’s the Jan 6 date of the en banc opinion), plus they can request an extension (which the Court would almost certainly grant if the petitioner is the federal government).

    Additionally, the Fifth Circuit remanded the case for entry of “appropriate relief” by the district court, which could be an injunction or declaratory relief. (What happened today is that the mandate issued, which means the district court now has jurisdiction and can enter an order granting such relief.) In theory, ATF could then appeal from that, but given the 13-3 spanking the Fifth Circuit doled out that’s not going anywhere, but they may do it just to try and delay things.

    Stay tuned, it’s not over yet.

    • “ATF can still file a cert petition with SCOTUS — they have 90 days from the date of judgment (in this case, that’s the Jan 6 date of the en banc opinion), plus they can request an extension (which the Court would almost certainly grant if the petitioner is the federal government).”

      They *could*, but may not for tactical reasons.

      I can see the ATF electing to ‘cut their losses’ and not petition for cert. on this one, since a very real outcome might be for the Court to just ‘GVR’ it, and throw it back where it came from. Letting it ride limits the damage for the time being to just the 5th circuit, does it not?

      But hey, I’m no lawyer, and have never played on on TV… 🙂

      • The chance that SCOTUS will GVR the Fifth Circuit’s decision is zero.

        GVR [cert Granted, opinion Vacated, Reversed] is summary reversal without briefing or oral argument. Rare and reserved for cases where SCOTUS law is clear and the Court of Appeals is essentially thumbing its nose at the law. (Were we to see SCOTUS start GVR’ing screwy 2A decisions from the Second or Ninth Circuits, that would be a huge benchslap.)

        It’s possible that ATF will cut its losses and just let bump stocks be legal in Texas / Louisiana / Mississippi. But much more likely that they will file a cert petition in a month or so.

  16. The Supreme Court was waiting for this case to be decided in the 5th Circuit. The attorney in this case has written several books about administrative law and the excess power of regulations not supported by the laws Congress has passed. This case offers the court a one-two punch against the administrative state and the BATFE.

    If Garland appeals, he is a fool as the court will rule against BATFE and more importantly it will effect the governments ability to create regulations out of whole cloth, when Congress has not given them that power.

    Fingers crossed that Garland is a dumb as he looks.

  17. @gunnygene
    “Well, when the Soap box, the Ballot box, and Jury box don’t work there’s still one more box.”

    I’m afraid you are talking about the music box; but, there ain’t gonna be no boogie, Lou.

  18. @Dude
    Yes, Bruen and Dobbs will be widely know legacy events. The rest? Doubtful. Only serious conservatives will recognize anything else; that is not a “legacy”.

    We should be grateful for the daily entertainment of Trump playing smash mouth with the media, and Dimwitocrats. But, entertainment isn’t long standing accomplishment.

    Trump, the amateur politician, didn’t understand politics, and the need for alliances. As I predicted in 2015, here on TTAG, Trump would suffer the fate of Jesse Ventura in Minnesota; wild public approval, no legislative support.

    In 2020, Trump focused on his rallys as the indicator of his national popularity, ridiculing Biden’s audience as merely the media. Trump did not understand that when the enemy is difficult to find, something is amiss.

    Was glad for Trump’s presidency, but simply re-running 2016 will leave the Republicrat elite in power, Trump a losing outsider, and his constituency wondering what happened.

    • “The rest? Doubtful.”

      I disagree. Look at the more popular upcoming Republicans. They look nothing like the neocons (Romney, McCain, Bush, etc.) of the past. They look like America First candidates. In my opinion, the game has changed. Trump changed the Republican party.

      We still have a conservative majority on the SC. If it weren’t for that, we’d be screwed.

      The worst thing that ever happened to Trump was the successful labeling of Jeb as “low energy Jeb.” It encouraged him. “Little Marco” was so-so. After that, it was down hill. Ron DeSanctimonious? That’s embarrassing. I’m not in the mood for entertainment. It’s a different world now.

      • “We still have a conservative majority on the SC. If it weren’t for that, we’d be screwed.”

        Indeed.

    • “his constituency wondering what happened“

      That’s always been the case for those folks…

    • “We should be grateful for the daily entertainment of Trump playing smash mouth with the media, and Dimwitocrats. But, entertainment isn’t long standing accomplishment.”

      I’d say Trump seating 3 SCotUS justices qualifies as a “long standing accomplishment”, concerning how they have been voting so far on gun law… 🙂

      • I’d say Trump seating 3 SCotUS justices qualifies as a “long standing accomplishment”

        Yes; implied in the gratitude for Bruen and Dobbs. However, Thomas is the likely end to the SCOTUS we herald.

        We lost in 2018, 2020, 2022, but the same team is running the Republicrat party. Past is prelude. At this rate, we can see the end to “the conservative court”.

Comments are closed.