Jeremy is TTAG's Deputy Editor, working mostly behind the scenes but, when he attempts to write, he focuses on comprehensive gun & gear reviews. Jeremy strives to collect objective data whenever possible, and looks to write accurate reviews that reflect the true user experience. He lives outside of Austin, TX.
no horse in that race.
billet vs. stamped on the other hand…
…were stamped AR lowers ever a thing?
AR-18?
And many derivative designs such as the SAR Leader.
who said anything about ar’s?
Mind on my AR, AR on my mind
No, but Ak & derivatives otoh…
stamped works just fine … says millions of ak owners.
There’s no fight to be had. Unicorns are not real. I win.
Forged 7075-T6 works just fine thank you very much.
Mine are 6061. It was easier on the milling bit when hogging them out, and have proven to be strong enough to perform over the years with no issues.
Not so sure about them thar polymer receivers, tho.
hahaha wtf aluminum was easier on the mill than aluminum?
c’mon, hogging any is like buttah.
7075 is very stiff, and if you’re using the PMF method to hog it (a handheld router and jig), there is an increased possibility of the mill bit “chattering” and wanting to bounce.
Work hardening is another problem…
router’s about the most dangerous power tool. no thanks on that method.
When I think of “forged” I have this vision of a blacksmith wielding a sledge hammer “forging” the lower on an anvil next to a furnace with sparks flying all over! Lol Honestly I don’t really know, or care, what the difference is. After having built a couple of the polymer 80% frames I’ll take steel from now on.
“Honestly I don’t really know, or care, what the difference is.”
Forged is somewhat stronger than billet, basically.
A bit of a moot point with an AR lower, since no part of the lower experiences the extreme forces of firing.
It’s also why you can get away with a polymer AR lower, some say… *cough*
forging compresses; milled from dense extrusion should be comparable, no?
I would think, but I’m no metallurgist, and I haven’t stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night… 🙂
Not really comparable, grain alignment cannot be achieved with extruding.
Only forging, however the increase in strength is mainly in the axial direction of the grain (just as in wood frankly), and not only a product of the density.
Besides, you can always outpace a pumps or rams pressure by making a bigger, more dense, or both, hammer. Until you make neutronium that is, which will gravitate so hard as crush everything around into the finest of pastes(s?).
[email protected]
Why did it post my fake email too? Lol.
Meh, mine are billet.
I think the “cast metal” option was overlooked. That would have the Democrat Party’s Jackass as the thumbnail for it.
Worked for soda cans apparently.
yeah, I saw those videos. anti-gun would probably declare them ‘ghost cans’ and ATF would want to redefine firearm to include any metal can.
Not going to lie the idea of a brass lower has appeal however impractical and silly it may be.
Whats MIM, a dead and bloated unicorn?
MIM – Metal Injection Molding.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmLYj3GZsx8
what was dacian’s name back then?
Vlad?
his name back then was still ‘stupid’
Why not both?
I have one of each. I like them both equally well.
I do both also, never had an issue with either. but I mill most of my own now anyway from either 6061 or 7075
As long as they work I don’t care🙄
…ditto
if its barbies for men
shouldnt then our dolls
wear the latest and greatest fashion add ons
that we can afford to dress them in
ive got two 16 inch ars
one in 5.56 and the other in 7.62×39
both have cnc billet uppers and lowers
and theyre by far the prettiest ones in the bunch
and it didnt cost very much extra to do them that way
like maybe 100 bucks each
they were both 1000 dollar builds
all the other ar15s are so jealous
and hate them for it
That’s one of the weirdest and longest haikus I’ve ever seen.
Forged v Billet? With modern processes and materials, the comparison is mostly meaningless. While I do own an Arsenal SAM7R which are hot-die hammer forged by Arsenal, Bulgaria which produces a vastly superior receiver as opposed to stamped. But for ARs, there is almost no reason to concern ones self between forged and billet.
wait, is this about ar’s?
not exactly…. but the ‘arguments’ over it arise mostly in relation to the AR platform.
Totally pointless unless you are going for looks or plan on running your AR over with a tracked vehicle on a daily basis. Save the money, invest in a better barrel.
Forged is stronger, but billet makes it easier to include more ambi features. I have both, both work, no real fight to be had.
I get forged but then again I am cheap and no one has ever been able to quantify why billet is better.
heck I want to go to polymer one day just not there yet.
Me over here looking at 3D lol
You guys totally missed the point.
MIM is probably going to be the weakest part of your firearm.
The Walker trigger was invented by Mike Walker.
It was the trigger in the Remington Model 700 rifle.
In the 1940’s his design had called for certain parts to be made from wrought metal,
which is shaped by machine tools or in today’s terms forged.
Instead, the process engineers had switched to molded or “powdered” metal, which was considered less durable or MIM. The price difference back then? 5½ cents per gun.
Remington had some deadly AD issues with the Model 700 rifle because of MIM.
Apples to Oranges MIM is the particle board of metal.
If you watch the video it shows that 42% of the MIM market is firearms parts.
Metal powder and binders that end up as a paste like material?
Hence a dead and bloated unicorn.
“MIM is probably going to be the weakest part of your firearm.”
Debunked.
And-
“Metal powder and binders that end up as a paste like material?”
The binders disappear during the sintering process, leaving only metal…
You posted the video. I just watched it and listened to what the guy said.
As for the weakest part of the firearm, I have some experience with that.
Remington cut costs on the Walker trigger with MIM.
Mike Walker testified to that under oath when he was 90.
In 1992 one of my friends was showing another friend his NEW Model 700.
Obviously the trigger had no wear, the rifle barely had any rounds through it.
It was chambered for 30-06. I WATCHED that rifle go off by itself.
The person who was holding it did not have their hand anywhere near the trigger or safety.
The 4 rules were not being followed so I never took my eyes off of the rifle.
It was brought up before the ND that the rifle should be unloaded.
The problem was the path of the bullet took it right through somebodies heart and then the round went through seven layers of sheet rock before exiting the house.
That person was likely dead before they hit the floor.
The PD came and took the person was hold said rifle. After two days he was cleared of any wrong doing, we all gave statements at the PD.
There was a coroners inquest followed by a lawsuit against the person who was in actual possession of the gun, their homeowners paid out the max of the policy.
Before you call BS, I am telling the truth, you don’t forget someones eyes rolling up into their head.
Whether it was MIM or a faulty trigger design I have no idea.
The persons widow sued and their kid is in their 30’s now.
It cased a rift among a circle of people who knew the person who was killed.
This was 31 years ago and that rifle going off is still in my mind.
It’s like it happened a few months ago. I haven’t trusted MIM since.
The person who was holding the rifle has never been the same since.
It’s funny how this problem with Remington triggers goes away when an aftermarket trigger is installed.
how about a good hardwood like oak…..
nevermind atf will want serial numbers on trees
Oak AR ‘furniture’ is available, if one wants it…
ain’t got nuthin’ on beaver barf.
Injection molding gang checking in.
I don’t know why it’s such an issue. Each has merits. And I’m with Haz, milling 6061 is a lot easier. 6061 isn’t as brittle. It’s more flexible and actually more corrosion resistant than 7075. I don’t know who runs over their receivers with big trucks or tanks, so under even the harshest real-world usage, forged vs billet is just a dumb argument to have.
As for polymers, I’ve got a couple of ARs with 20,000+ rounds through them with no issues. I’m on second and third barrels with some of them. But a polymer for a PCC blowback? No sir, they won’t hold up. Been there, done that.
I was shutezings my .45acp 1911 the other day and it went ,”pew, pew, pew” I looked down the bore, I looked at the bullets in the magazine. I tried again, “pew ,pew ,pew, ” I said Hey, your not supposed to go pew pew, your a 1911 with .45 acp’s in it your supposed to go *BLAM*BLAM*BLAM*.
I called up the emu company, Rainbow Reloaders and Used Unicorns and they told me that the bullets are only self identifying as 9mm.
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