1) So, what happens if the attacker engages by executing a left round-house kick to the groin/abdomen? By keeping your right hand well back and extending your left, you've exposed a pretty large target. Take a kick to the solar plexus and there's a good chance your next "fighting stance" will be curled up on the ground puking your guts out. Forgetting the gun for a moment, would you use that left hand forward, right hand well back stance as a normal fighting stance? No? Then what's good about it?
2) If you wait until the attacker is close enough to reach your left hand before drawing your weapon, you've waited too long. An experienced attacker might take that proffered left hand, wrist lock you and dump you on your butt, or step under and throw you. You should never give them a handle to grab.
3) If you happen to miss with your right hand during the strike, (the attacker would never duck your strike, right?) you could be in a whole world of hurt. If they simply grasp your right wrist or elbow with their left hand, then trap it with their right, they have immediate access to YOUR firearm with their left hand.
4) If you swing and they step into your arc, you're now in a wrestling match. Your gun hand is tied up and it's no longer about shooting – it's about how good your ground-fighting skills are. That might work out okay against a slight female but try it with a 260 pound judoka, wrestler or street fighter and see what it gets you. (Hint: Dead.)
Overall, the advantage of using firearms for self-defense is that they do not require the manual combat arts to be effective and can be used beyond the range of physical attack. An attacker close enough to touch you before you can shoot is already too close. A better tactic? DRAW YOUR WEAPON, hold up your hand and say, "stop". If they come within your combat radius – SHOOT. If they get close enough to touch (which is already too close), use your LEFT hand to hold them off, all the while pumping lead into them. That way you're not having to grapple with an attacker while trying to draw your weapon.
But don't wait for them to get close before you draw. Get your gun out NOW and back them down. If they don't back down: Shoot.
And remember, if the information you're giving out isn't good for 100-pound women or 90-year-old grandfathers, it's probably not good advice period. You shouldn't have to depend on superior reaction speed, coordination, hand-to-hand combat skills or strength to save your life. Turn your demonstration around. Give the gun to your daughter. Put on a REAL full-out bull rush and see if she can fend you off and draw the gun. If she can't do it, you just killed her.
Finally, the law in many states permits the use of deadly force to prevent a felony. In other words, protecting yourself or another from the imminent threat of death or great bodily harm is not the only criterion for use of deadly force. It is the responsibility of each individual to know the applicable laws for their state/county/city, but there are locales where you can shoot even when you're in no danger at all. The point of this is not to encourage people to go around shooting criminals willy-nilly, but rather to point out that in many places, you don't have to wait until you're at a disadvantage to defend yourself.
And that's "The Truth About Guns"
STOP! Your daughter appears uncomfortable doing this demonstration with you. Please have someone that actually looks intimidating help you with you next self defense skit.
A law-enforcement friend and I occasionally do these kinds of CQ weapon and retention drills, and while I'm still not very good at them they ARE invaluable.
For practice, however, you might want to get a blue plastic training gun. You can get rough with them and drop them without worrying that you'll damage your floor or your carry gun, and you can point them wherever you want and they'll never go "boom".
I feel much better prepared to defend my family against evil mixed martial artists now. Thank you BambiB.
hahah – that is exactly what I was thinking! I don't remember the last time Chuck Norris or Rampage Jackson attacked somebody, but I suppose it does happen.
BambiB, I'm not quite sure what the point of your reply was. Are you saying that we should all be able to defend ourselves via h2h combat against UFC fighters? If this is the case, I guess that over 99% of the people in the world are doomed for defeat. Stepping back into reality, a quick look at the nightly news or recent arrest reports shows that the average attacker isn't going to be trained in MMA, martial arts, Greco-Roman wrestling, grappling, judo, etc. Most are of average size and build, and to verify I just asked my neighbor, a CO at a Federal prison, and she agreed that the vast majority of inmates detained for violent attacks, rape, and homicide are average size (both men and women).
On a similar note, local drug runners, armed attackers, and robbers are usually thugs. They have no training or concept of sight-picture alignment. Ask any LEO or detective that has worked a case or been involved in a shooting. Ask them when they finally did the investigation, how many bullets were found 15 ft high in surrounding walls and how many bullets were shot into the ground.
Superior reaction speed? Coordination? Training, both h2h and with a personal firearm can exponentially increase your odds of survival. Robert's advice is similar to one of the lessons I received during a CQB/Low-Light training course. It requires basic gross-motor skills and is easy to practice. It takes years and year of practice to be an effective h2h combat fighter. This technique, and others similar, is designed so the average person can have an edge over an attacker. If Chuck Norris is determined to take you down, then very few people (gun carrying or not) will be able to do anything.
Also, your comment about “locales where you can shoot even when you’re in no danger at all” is totally false. Please provide ONE single location where you can shoot at someone without being in danger. If this were to occur, chances are extremely high that you’ll be bunking up with someone in your local prison. A recent article I read talked about an elderly man shooting out of his window at someone stealing his truck in the driveway. The man shot and killed on of the robbers. For his actions, the elderly man was charged with murder (among other charges) and will likely spend time in jail himself.
Pete, my four daughters competed with each other to be on camera. AFTER they saw five rehearsals. Still, point taken.
While Bambi makes some good points there is an issue here: "DRAW YOUR WEAPON, hold up your hand and say, “stop”. If they come within your combat radius – SHOOT. If they get close enough to touch (which is already too close), use your LEFT hand to hold them off, all the while pumping lead into them. That way you’re not having to grapple with an attacker while trying to draw your weapon."
You can't just shoot simply because someone enters your "combat radius." You can only shoot if your attacker is using lethal force against you or perhaps if there is a "Disparity of Force" in which case you may be able to use a higher level of force than what you are faced with, perhaps even lethal force.
If you are faced with lethal force, it is very likely that you will NOT have to the time to put your hand up and yell "stop."
If your attacker is close, it is VITAL that your attacker not be able to reach your weapon while you are trying to shoot as a disarm at contact distance is extremely easy.
Bambi also points out that "there are locales where you can shoot even when you’re in no danger at all." That may be the case, doubtful, but if so they are few and far between. It is recommended that you get into a fight ONLY when life is in danger or there is a threat of grave bodily harm. The consequences of a gunfight, is that you may loose and die, get shot, get prosecuted, go to jail, get sued and spend tens of thousands defending yourself in court. The last thing in the world you want to do is to get into a gun fight.
I suppose I should clarify. Here’s what I intended:
1) If you perceive a threat, get your gun out NOW. Don’t wait. If you wait until near contact range to draw, you LOSE.
2) With regard to the martial arts, I apologize if my own training took over the conversation. I was simply visualizing all the ways Robert’s recommendations could fail. It should have sufficed to say that the major advantage of a firearm over most other weapons is that it can engage an enemy AT A DISTANCE. If you’re going to give up that advantage, you’re probably better off with a knife.
3) Most people who find themselves in self-defense situations are NOT prepared for it. They need every edge they can get – including being able to fire instantly if rushed. You can’t fire instantly if your gun is still in the holster. Perceive a threat? Get the gun READY to use. If you don’t need to use it, you can always put it back in the holster. And don’t discount the psychological value of a large bore handgun aimed directly at a perp’s face versus the value of a gun in a holster.
4) In Florida, and in other states generally, there are specific circumstances under which the use of deadly force is authorized WITHOUT any requirement for being in imminent danger.
Here are the applicable statutes for FLORIDA:
776.012 Use of force in defense of person.–A person is justified in the use of force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against such other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, the person is justified in the use of deadly force only if he or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. History.–s. 13, ch. 74-383; s. 1188, ch. 97-102.
Next question: What’s a “forcible felony”?
I’m glad you asked. 😉
776.08 Forcible felony.–“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; car-jacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.
Let’s take a look at burglary, which is a crime against property…
810.02 Burglary.–
(1) “Burglary” means entering or remaining in a dwelling, a structure, or a conveyance with the intent to commit an offense therein, unless the premises are at the time open to the public or the defendant is licensed or invited to enter or remain.
Just to make sure we’re all on the same page, let’s review the applicable definitions:
810.011 Definitions.–As used in this chapter:
(1) “Structure” means a building of any kind, either temporary or permanent, which has a roof over it, together with the curtilage thereof. However, during the time of a state of emergency declared by executive order or proclamation of the Governor under chapter 252 and within the area covered by such executive order or proclamation and for purposes of ss. 810.02 and 810.08 only, the term means a building of any kind or such portions or remnants thereof as exist at the original site, regardless of absence of a wall or roof.
(2) “Dwelling” means a building or conveyance of any kind, including any attached porch, whether such building or conveyance is temporary or permanent, mobile or immobile, which has a roof over it and is designed to be occupied by people lodging therein at night, together with the curtilage thereof. However, during the time of a state of emergency declared by executive order or proclamation of the Governor under chapter 252 and within the area covered by such executive order or proclamation and for purposes of Ss 810.02 and 810.08 only, the term includes such portions or remnants thereof as exist at the original site, regardless of absence of a wall or roof.
(3) “Conveyance” means any motor vehicle, ship, vessel, railroad vehicle or car, trailer, aircraft, or sleeping car; and “to enter a conveyance” includes taking apart any portion of the conveyance. However, during the time of a state of emergency declared by executive order or proclamation of the Governor under chapter 252 and within the area covered by such executive order or proclamation and for purposes of Ss 810.02 and 810.08 only, the term “conveyance” means a motor vehicle, ship, vessel, railroad vehicle or car, trailer, aircraft, or sleeping car or such portions thereof as exist. (4) An act is committed “in the course of committing” if it occurs in an attempt to commit the offense or in flight after the attempt or commission.
One example of how the law has been applied in an actual case: An elderly man living in the Florida panhandle looked out through the window in his kitchen door and observed a young man under the dash of his car tampering with the wiring. He opened a drawer containing a 9mm handgun, walked across the kitchen and emptied the magazine through the window into the punk who was trying to steal his car.
The punk was unaware of the old man’s presence until the shooting started and died a short time later, never having posed any threat to the old man. At all times, a locked door was between the two.
The shooter was never tried. Due to the political nature of such a shooting (killing in defense of property), the grand jury considered the case, but no billed it. (“A good prosecutor can convince a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.” – Solomon Wachtler former Chief Judge of the New York Court of Appeals).
Conversely, the dead criminal’s accomplice was indicted for murder. (Felony murder – if you are engaged in a felony, and someone dies, you’re guilty of murder. Rob a bank and someone has a heart attack and dies – Murder.)
So let’s look at a “bleeding edge” case. You’re cleaning your 300 WinMag and you look down the block to see someone break the side mirror off a neighbor’s car.
“Conveyance” means any …car…”to enter a conveyance” includes taking apart any portion of the conveyance.
The perp has “entered a conveyance” If he broke the mirror unintentionally, it’s a different matter – but for purposes of this illustration, he intentionally broke the mirror and has already committed an “offense” (destruction of private property).
“Burglary” means entering … a … conveyance … unless… invited to enter
So, unless the perp was invited by the owner to break the mirror, he’s committing burglary.
Burglary is a forcible felony and the commission of the felony is imminent (in progress)
776.012 … the person is justified in the use of deadly force … to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.
Put the perp in the crosshairs and sque-e-e-e-ze the trigger.
A justified use of deadly force.
Of course, it could get more complicated than that – but all I promised you was a “bleeding edge” example. Read the law for yourself. Draw your own conclusions.
But don’t for a second think that it is NECESSARY for you to be in danger, or even to believe you may be in danger before you shoot. The laws vary from state to state.
1) So, what happens if the attacker engages by executing a left round-house kick to the groin/abdomen? By keeping your right hand well back and extending your left, you've exposed a pretty large target. Take a kick to the solar plexus and there's a good chance your next "fighting stance" will be curled up on the ground puking your guts out. Forgetting the gun for a moment, would you use that left hand forward, right hand well back stance as a normal fighting stance? No? Then what's good about it?
2) If you wait until the attacker is close enough to reach your left hand before drawing your weapon, you've waited too long. An experienced attacker might take that proffered left hand, wrist lock you and dump you on your butt, or step under and throw you. You should never give them a handle to grab.
3) If you happen to miss with your right hand during the strike, (the attacker would never duck your strike, right?) you could be in a whole world of hurt. If they simply grasp your right wrist or elbow with their left hand, then trap it with their right, they have immediate access to YOUR firearm with their left hand.
4) If you swing and they step into your arc, you're now in a wrestling match. Your gun hand is tied up and it's no longer about shooting – it's about how good your ground-fighting skills are. That might work out okay against a slight female but try it with a 260 pound judoka, wrestler or street fighter and see what it gets you. (Hint: Dead.)
Overall, the advantage of using firearms for self-defense is that they do not require the manual combat arts to be effective and can be used beyond the range of physical attack. An attacker close enough to touch you before you can shoot is already too close. A better tactic? DRAW YOUR WEAPON, hold up your hand and say, "stop". If they come within your combat radius – SHOOT. If they get close enough to touch (which is already too close), use your LEFT hand to hold them off, all the while pumping lead into them. That way you're not having to grapple with an attacker while trying to draw your weapon.
But don't wait for them to get close before you draw. Get your gun out NOW and back them down. If they don't back down: Shoot.
And remember, if the information you're giving out isn't good for 100-pound women or 90-year-old grandfathers, it's probably not good advice period. You shouldn't have to depend on superior reaction speed, coordination, hand-to-hand combat skills or strength to save your life. Turn your demonstration around. Give the gun to your daughter. Put on a REAL full-out bull rush and see if she can fend you off and draw the gun. If she can't do it, you just killed her.
Finally, the law in many states permits the use of deadly force to prevent a felony. In other words, protecting yourself or another from the imminent threat of death or great bodily harm is not the only criterion for use of deadly force. It is the responsibility of each individual to know the applicable laws for their state/county/city, but there are locales where you can shoot even when you're in no danger at all. The point of this is not to encourage people to go around shooting criminals willy-nilly, but rather to point out that in many places, you don't have to wait until you're at a disadvantage to defend yourself.
And that's "The Truth About Guns"
STOP! Your daughter appears uncomfortable doing this demonstration with you. Please have someone that actually looks intimidating help you with you next self defense skit.
A law-enforcement friend and I occasionally do these kinds of CQ weapon and retention drills, and while I'm still not very good at them they ARE invaluable.
For practice, however, you might want to get a blue plastic training gun. You can get rough with them and drop them without worrying that you'll damage your floor or your carry gun, and you can point them wherever you want and they'll never go "boom".
I feel much better prepared to defend my family against evil mixed martial artists now. Thank you BambiB.
hahah – that is exactly what I was thinking! I don't remember the last time Chuck Norris or Rampage Jackson attacked somebody, but I suppose it does happen.
BambiB, I'm not quite sure what the point of your reply was. Are you saying that we should all be able to defend ourselves via h2h combat against UFC fighters? If this is the case, I guess that over 99% of the people in the world are doomed for defeat. Stepping back into reality, a quick look at the nightly news or recent arrest reports shows that the average attacker isn't going to be trained in MMA, martial arts, Greco-Roman wrestling, grappling, judo, etc. Most are of average size and build, and to verify I just asked my neighbor, a CO at a Federal prison, and she agreed that the vast majority of inmates detained for violent attacks, rape, and homicide are average size (both men and women).
On a similar note, local drug runners, armed attackers, and robbers are usually thugs. They have no training or concept of sight-picture alignment. Ask any LEO or detective that has worked a case or been involved in a shooting. Ask them when they finally did the investigation, how many bullets were found 15 ft high in surrounding walls and how many bullets were shot into the ground.
Superior reaction speed? Coordination? Training, both h2h and with a personal firearm can exponentially increase your odds of survival. Robert's advice is similar to one of the lessons I received during a CQB/Low-Light training course. It requires basic gross-motor skills and is easy to practice. It takes years and year of practice to be an effective h2h combat fighter. This technique, and others similar, is designed so the average person can have an edge over an attacker. If Chuck Norris is determined to take you down, then very few people (gun carrying or not) will be able to do anything.
Also, your comment about “locales where you can shoot even when you’re in no danger at all” is totally false. Please provide ONE single location where you can shoot at someone without being in danger. If this were to occur, chances are extremely high that you’ll be bunking up with someone in your local prison. A recent article I read talked about an elderly man shooting out of his window at someone stealing his truck in the driveway. The man shot and killed on of the robbers. For his actions, the elderly man was charged with murder (among other charges) and will likely spend time in jail himself.
Pete, my four daughters competed with each other to be on camera. AFTER they saw five rehearsals. Still, point taken.
While Bambi makes some good points there is an issue here: "DRAW YOUR WEAPON, hold up your hand and say, “stop”. If they come within your combat radius – SHOOT. If they get close enough to touch (which is already too close), use your LEFT hand to hold them off, all the while pumping lead into them. That way you’re not having to grapple with an attacker while trying to draw your weapon."
You can't just shoot simply because someone enters your "combat radius." You can only shoot if your attacker is using lethal force against you or perhaps if there is a "Disparity of Force" in which case you may be able to use a higher level of force than what you are faced with, perhaps even lethal force.
If you are faced with lethal force, it is very likely that you will NOT have to the time to put your hand up and yell "stop."
If your attacker is close, it is VITAL that your attacker not be able to reach your weapon while you are trying to shoot as a disarm at contact distance is extremely easy.
Bambi also points out that "there are locales where you can shoot even when you’re in no danger at all." That may be the case, doubtful, but if so they are few and far between. It is recommended that you get into a fight ONLY when life is in danger or there is a threat of grave bodily harm. The consequences of a gunfight, is that you may loose and die, get shot, get prosecuted, go to jail, get sued and spend tens of thousands defending yourself in court. The last thing in the world you want to do is to get into a gun fight.
I suppose I should clarify. Here’s what I intended:
1) If you perceive a threat, get your gun out NOW. Don’t wait. If you wait until near contact range to draw, you LOSE.
2) With regard to the martial arts, I apologize if my own training took over the conversation. I was simply visualizing all the ways Robert’s recommendations could fail. It should have sufficed to say that the major advantage of a firearm over most other weapons is that it can engage an enemy AT A DISTANCE. If you’re going to give up that advantage, you’re probably better off with a knife.
3) Most people who find themselves in self-defense situations are NOT prepared for it. They need every edge they can get – including being able to fire instantly if rushed. You can’t fire instantly if your gun is still in the holster. Perceive a threat? Get the gun READY to use. If you don’t need to use it, you can always put it back in the holster. And don’t discount the psychological value of a large bore handgun aimed directly at a perp’s face versus the value of a gun in a holster.
4) In Florida, and in other states generally, there are specific circumstances under which the use of deadly force is authorized WITHOUT any requirement for being in imminent danger.
Here are the applicable statutes for FLORIDA:
Next question: What’s a “forcible felony”?
I’m glad you asked. 😉
Let’s take a look at burglary, which is a crime against property…
Just to make sure we’re all on the same page, let’s review the applicable definitions:
One example of how the law has been applied in an actual case: An elderly man living in the Florida panhandle looked out through the window in his kitchen door and observed a young man under the dash of his car tampering with the wiring. He opened a drawer containing a 9mm handgun, walked across the kitchen and emptied the magazine through the window into the punk who was trying to steal his car.
The punk was unaware of the old man’s presence until the shooting started and died a short time later, never having posed any threat to the old man. At all times, a locked door was between the two.
The shooter was never tried. Due to the political nature of such a shooting (killing in defense of property), the grand jury considered the case, but no billed it. (“A good prosecutor can convince a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.” – Solomon Wachtler former Chief Judge of the New York Court of Appeals).
Conversely, the dead criminal’s accomplice was indicted for murder. (Felony murder – if you are engaged in a felony, and someone dies, you’re guilty of murder. Rob a bank and someone has a heart attack and dies – Murder.)
So let’s look at a “bleeding edge” case. You’re cleaning your 300 WinMag and you look down the block to see someone break the side mirror off a neighbor’s car.
The perp has “entered a conveyance” If he broke the mirror unintentionally, it’s a different matter – but for purposes of this illustration, he intentionally broke the mirror and has already committed an “offense” (destruction of private property).
So, unless the perp was invited by the owner to break the mirror, he’s committing burglary.
Burglary is a forcible felony and the commission of the felony is imminent (in progress)
Put the perp in the crosshairs and sque-e-e-e-ze the trigger.
A justified use of deadly force.
Of course, it could get more complicated than that – but all I promised you was a “bleeding edge” example. Read the law for yourself. Draw your own conclusions.
But don’t for a second think that it is NECESSARY for you to be in danger, or even to believe you may be in danger before you shoot. The laws vary from state to state.
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