If Reverend Al Sharpton says Trayvon Martin was “just trying to go home” one more time, I’m going to scream. Too late. Luckily, in a Mercedes GL450, no one can hear you scream. Anyway, Martin was not going home. Martin wasn’t staying at his home. He’d been expelled from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High after school officials found marijuana residue in a baggie in his backpack.. He was staying with his father’s fiance. Small point. And here’s a bigger one. Trayvon Martin punched George Zimmerman. And as we’ve discussed here before, a single punch can kill. As the friends and family of 51-year-old Andrew Tian will attest. ‘Cause Andrew can’t. As wfla.com reports, the restauranteur was murdered by a 20-year-old gang banger named Juan De Dios Rodriguez [above], arrested today. Here’s how it went down . . .
It all stems from a terrible crime at the New Dynasty Chinese Buffet.
On the night of July 14th, Rodriguez and two friends ate then took off without paying.
Sarasota County Sheriff Tom Knight said, “[Rodriguez] did not want to pay a $35.31 bill.”
51-year-old old restaurant manager, Andrew Tian chased them down. When he approached them, the sheriff’s office says Rodriguez punched him in the head and he fell onto the pavement.
Tian died in the hospital a few days later.
I realize that Tian didn’t have a chance to draw a gun. You could also argue that he shouldn’t have chased down two chew-and-screwers. But the general point is simple enough: it’s good to carry a gun. If you, your loved ones or innocent life is in imminent danger of death or grievous bodily harm, and imminence is imminent, a firearm is an excellent way to defend life and limb.
Equally, I believe that someone who carries a gun is less likely to confront a criminal than an unarmed citizen. Debate that as you will, especially in light of the George Zimmerman verdict. Remember that the jury accepted Zimmerman’s contention that he didn’t confront Trayvon Martin. Martin confronted Zimmerman. Who didn’t die. [h/t AB]
Under Florida law, Mr Tian was not authorized to employ deadly force. He would have gone to jail.
I think that would have been his preference.
This is true, but I think you should reread the article. You missed the point.
What I think he meant was that he wouldn’t have been able to use deadly force to retrieve the unpaid funds. Although this is true, the moment someone attacks you the use of deadly force can be used if mortal fear is perceived.
not if merely perceived… it has to be reasonably perceived. You can’t just make it up – “oh I was scared for my life” – it has to be a scenario where a reasonable person would agree that there was an imminent threat of death or great harm.
Or: The trier of fact has to find your perception of imminent death or serious bodily injury credible, and your actions in light of those perceptions reasonable, given the law. It’s a subjective test in FL.
Exactly….you can feel that fear and pull the trigger, but ultimately it is a jury of your peers that will have to agree with you…this is the beauty of our country.
There have been two one-punch kills in my town that I recall. One, two HS students got into a tussle, and one punched the other. Unfortunately, the other popped an aneurism and died. The other was in a bar, guy who thinks he’s defending his gf’s honor from a masher, sucker punches the masher from behind and kills him. Then there is a local boy, an athlete, in college down the road, hit once at a party, still in rehab because of the brain injury from striking his head on the pavement.
I think RF was trying to prove all the libtards wrong in the assumption that the worst thing a fist fight can end in is a broken nose and hurt feelings. That being said every where I have worked, including banks, works on the idea that if they steal and run, with no use or show of deadly force, let ’em go. However, the very same bank had bulletproof glass and had been robbed, by a guy claiming to have a gun, and we weren’t allowed to carry. I would not risk my life to chase a bad guy down over an unpaid tab, some items, or cash. However, I do want the ability to protect myself should the criminal decide he wants to use deadly force. Case in point, my uncle who was jumped and shot in the head for $24 while delivering pizza. Luckily thug used a .22 and my uncle is still living, although with some lead in his head.
Aaaaand…of course it was Florida…again.
I am sure he was racially profiled
Well of course!
Mr. Tian was probably a “white/asian” racist too.
This no to guns, yes to harmless fistfights foolishness is coming from people whose only exposure to any kind of fighting is sports on television. More often, choreographed dancing on television.
It’s a harmless fistfight to athletes trained to roll with the punches. With mouthguards. And punches wearing padded gloves. Which stop coming as soon as you’re down.
To the rest of us it’s concussions and broken teeth. Which the smaller, shorter, or slower of us should apparently just lay back and enjoy when the alternative is the aggressor dying.
It seems many voters haven’t seen a fight since seventh grade. They also seem to think a little brain damage isn’t a big issue. Fifty years ago I first read of Mas Oyama’s (‘This is Karate’) dance-hall punch, which killed the guy who was being rude to a woman there. This isn’t new. People are generally clueless.
“Which the smaller, shorter, or slower of us should apparently just lay back and enjoy when the alternative is the aggressor dying.”
And do you note that the anti- self-defense advice is the same that they used to give to women facing rape? “Lay back and enjoy it.” They stopped recommending that when too many women were abducted, raped and murdered, but they still won’t recommend that women use a truly effective means to prevent rape: a .38 S&W (your choice of weapon may vary).
RF, I want to know your point of view on the Gianquitti case from a few years back:
http://news.providencejournal.com/breaking-news/2009/03/gianquitti-tria-31.html
That’s an ugly one. Write up here.
http://www.courts.ri.gov/Courts/SupremeCourt/OpinionsOrders/opinions/10-8.pdf
It is, very dirty case. It involves retired cops, permit holders, and a bunch of other issues. That’s why I want to hear RF’s opinion.
“Gianquitti briefly served with the Providence PD before retiring on disability.” But kept his gun, of course. Because he briefly was a cop.
Gianquitti may or may not have been justified, however it only goes to show – Vandalizing kids get cussed at, and if you have a vandalizing kid who is vandalizing your neighbors car maybe it isn’t a good idea to go over to your neighbors house, cuss him out, punch him in his face and enter his house. Sounded like Pagano needed to teach his kids not to smash baseballs or tennis balls or whatever into the neighbor’s cars then he wouldn’t have to get upset when the neighbor disciplined his children.
Nothing but an argument between foul mouthed yankee trash (Is there any other kind of yankee?) Just goes to show the failures of past immigration policy.
How sapient, Chris, that you would suggest, though too late to do any good, an altered policy which would have settled New England with transported British criminals, supplemented by captive animist laborers purchased in West African markets. “Georgia On My Mind.” With neither group wishing or intending to be there, who could ask for a more promising start?
You lost the Civil War and you’ll loose it again. Grow up. Also, most of the collaborators who sided with the British were from the South (Tarleton’s Legion). So not only did you loose the Civil War, but you traitorous Southerners also lost the Revolution.
I don’t think any of we current southerners lost any of those wars actually, considering they took place many, many years ago. Also, down here, we like to refer to it as the “War of Northern Aggression.” 🙂
Also, all of this is relevant why?
There’s always Harry Houdini as an example of deadly punches. And just a couple to the abdomen, no less. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Houdini#Death
I have two huge problems with the notion that an attacker armed only with his fists poses no significant danger:
(1) As the example above illustrates, a single solid punch can kill a person — whether it is the punch itself that actually kills or the resulting impact of the victim’s head on a hard surface when they fall over.
(2) A single solid punch quite often knocks a person unconscious. Once unconscious, the attacker can easily stomp on your head, crush your windpipe, slit your throat, etc. And, while that single punch that knocked you unconscious did not kill you nor cause great bodily harm, what the criminal does after you are unconscious includes death or great bodily harm.
So I fail to see how an attacker who has nothing but his fists is an insignificant threat — assuming of course the attacker has the physical ability to deliver decent punches. How do we change the standards for justifiable use of force?
“…And, while that single punch that knocked you unconscious did not […] cause great bodily harm…”
Disagree. Getting knocked unconscious IS great bodily harm. The lasting effects from concussion can be none to moderate to severe. You can have permanent brain issues from it, as they’ve been researching a lot in relation to football players. It’s not hollywood hyperbole when you see doctors waking somebody up after they’ve been knocked out and asking them silly questions like “what day is it?” or “do you know who the president is?” It’s common to have fairly extreme temporary amnesia, horrible nausea, and more. For days. Or longer. Or be affected mentally forever.
It wasn’t until the past 5 years or so that I knew how many concussions I had in high school football. It’s easier than people think.
I can see your point — which reinforces my point. Attackers throwing punches have knocked out plenty of people. While death from a punch may be relatively uncommon, knock-outs are common.
Thus an attacker with fists — and the strength/technique to use them — is a significant threat.
In many states this is addressed in the “disparity of force” standards: a weaker victim facing a larger, stronger, younger assailant may be legally entitled to use lethal force – again, you get into the “reasonable” use of force. And be prepared to go bankrupt fighting homicide charges in court if you live in a PC city/state. STRONGLY recommend getting a concealed carry/legal defense insurance policy. NRA members can get one for about $275/yr.
The irony here? De Dios means ‘of God’ in spanish.
My arm, my arm, my arm, my arm, my arm, my arm, I’ll summon up the power of the GOD HAND!
Ha… I never thought someone else on TTAG has played God Hand.
Here’s an example of not only a one-punch kill, it was a one-punch kill committed by former Chicago mayor Daley’s nephew. It was basically swept under the rug for some time and is only now seeing some action.
http://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-room/Daley-Nephew-Trial-To-Begin-Early-Next-Year-207417751.html
Way to brag about your fancy car, RF!
Well, at least he didn’t say “G 63 AMG.”
Or Porsche GT3. Sigh.
This guy looks like he could’ve one punched GZ and TM fatally.
Unless you charge for food, paid up front like fast food, you will pretty much have to assume a few deadbeats are going to eat and beat feet. Even if you chase them down, they probably won’t even have any money on them, and sure won’t give it to you. Get video cameras and let cops whoop them, then charge them with service theft.
Comment posted so my potential future lawyer(s) can prove I was aware of, and concerned about, the possibility of being killed by a single punch, especially when thrown by a younger/stronger person. These types of encounters apparently do happen, more often then I previously thought.
More often then the DA in the Trayvon case thought too…
Surviving the head injury can be just as bad– if you have permanent brain damage.
“chew-and-screwers”
I always called it Dine-and-Dash. Guess I learned something new.
under most states he didn’t have the right to draw a gun BUT the could have used pepper spray and slowed or stopped them; its only food
How can someone be blamed for something without proof??? How come we don’t believe that the guy who said he would pay for the bill…actually is the one who punched the guy. He knew if he talked first he would get out of this. The cops promised him no charges if he talked. Like duhhhh I would blame someone else as well, let’s be realistic people I would do the same & so would many of you.
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