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It looks like the pistol caliber carbine wars are starting to heat up some more. Long dominated by the AR-15 conversions and MP5 clones, the pistol caliber carbine platform allows shooters to fire a comfortable round that’s easy to suppress and whose price isn’t as prone to manipulation by Dianne Feinstein as some other modern rifle calibers. The CZ Scorpion Evo S3 Pistol was first on the scene, followed shortly by the SIG SAUER MPX (which is actually really shipping…I swear). Now Definitive Arms is throwing their hat in the ring with a modified AK-47 rifle that has some really cool features . . .

The gun uses standard Colt magazines instead of a proprietary mag, which is cheaper and easier to find than those for the new entries. The gun features a last round bolt hold open, which isn’t SOP on the AK platform, but definitely appreciated. And the reliability of the AK platform is pretty legendary.

If they can come in at the right price, they have a good chance to make a splash and give people something legitimately new to play with. No word on price et and availability is said to be “soon.” Stay tuned.

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41 COMMENTS

    • I want a new polymer hicap pistol in 7.62×25.I believe Norinco make a sig copy in this hot caliber

  3. Oh snap. That bolt hold open. That quick release.

    Originally, I thought “meh, it’s not a helical mag PP-Bizon”. But I’m actually really curious about this now.

  5. I’ll be honest, the cost of 9mm vs. all the other calibers out there has me seriously considering a 9mm carbine of some kind as a range toy/plinker. However, I’ve been burned in the past by an epically unreliable 9mm AR and so am leery of the whole 9mm AR scene. Nice to see another option out there not based on “America’s favorite rifle”.

    FWIW, I own ARs in 5.56, 6.5G, .458 SOCOM, .300 BLK, and .308. I’ve got nothing against ARs in general. But I hate ones that don’t work.

    • If some dude in Pakistan can build a functional AK with just a hammer and a drill press, then an American company with advanced machinery shouldn’t have too much trouble.

    • Mostly because the shops doing them were aiming for the cheap segment. If you look at Krebs etc, they’re solid. Definitive Arms has been in the business of AK conversions for a while now, and they’re also very good (and expensive). If these guys are doing this, I wouldn’t worry about quality. Price, though …

  8. I don’t know if I’m happier someone will be selling a mass produced 9mm AK or that they used full30 to post their vid. Run away from the googles!

    • Ishmael had a US importance version of the Saiga-9, basically the Vityaz. Now with Obama EOs don’t expect to ever see it imported.

      Bison was discontinued and replaced by the Vityaz. The helical mags ducked.

  11. Definitive arms is great stuff. I got the opportunity to meet Chase from DA at the shot show, and I have say, he was extremely generous with his time given his popularity with the AK Operator’s union as well as many other big names in the business. I’d love to get an AK modded up by DA but the wait time is pretty, ah, considerable. But obviously worth it.

  12. So if I put the Hi Point 9 mm carbine and the AK in the closet next to each other and wait 9 months …

  13. I hope they charge a premium price for it. Because overpricing pistol caliber carbines for no apparent reason seem to be trendy these days.

    • All indications on AKfiles has it north of $1000.
      If so that might relegate it to AK fanboys since the CZ has a street price under $800.

  14. I have a 9mm JRC “AR type” carbine & a 9mm KelTec Sub2000, because both take Glock 10, 12, 15, 17 & 33 round mags.
    There are no more more reliable mags out there, and the availability + flexibility & swapability with the Glock handguns taking the same mags is unparalleled.
    I have no interest in carbines using those Colt – type mags. Or the Beretta stuff which isn’t as flexible as an AR-type rifle, and the mags situation isn’t near as good either.

  16. Not to get off topic but I just want to know how TTAG got all the release information on the Sig MPX yet there’s not even a shred of evidence from Sig themselves. Sig has been social media happy and its taken them almost three years to get it out. I’m sorry something doesn’t add up, Sig would have announced way before TTAG did if this was true

  17. Saiga was supposed to drop their 9mm AK until the Russian import ban happens. Though with talk of an American plant being started, we’ll see.

    This 9mm project by Definitive Arms / Atlantic Arms has been talked about for the better part of the past year on the AKFiles forum… glad to see video that it’s real!

  18. I am happy with my Hi Point. Unless they can release the gun for under $300 with $20 magazines I am not interested. I have three 10 round magazines that eat up ammo like a ravenous wolf. I am not interested in a 30 round magazine. We blow up $20 worth of ammo in less than 30 minutes with the 10 round magazines. Maybe we will see $5 a box 9mm ammo again….Not likely!

    • Heck this AK will be 3-4X times the cost of the HiPoint.
      With a a street price under $300 the HiPoint will always have its market niche.
      OTOH, with it looks and name rep, it will remain a niche.
      As some article on here showed a while ago, it ventilates the bad guys just as well as any other more expensive PCC.

  19. Is this going to be straight blowback as well? If so, I won’t be surprised but I will be slightly disappointed.

    I’ve seen a 9mm custom builds that just cut down the piston, and use the entire BCG/piston as a telescoped blowback BCG after welding the bolt to prevent it from rotating.

  20. Why not use GLOCK magazines? Can you imagine a 9MM AK with glock magsS?
    i have SUB 2000 in Glock 9 mm and it need cousin 🙂

  21. Well, I guess we’ll see…. Personally I haven’t found anything yet that beats Sub2k for lightweight, portability, value, and the ability to pair up with a Glock pistol and it’s 33 round Mags. Looking forward to the Gen2 now as well, with lots of improvements… A PCC is kind of a niche really. Once they get too heavy, too complicated, too expensive, too proprietary, they seem to lose me a bit. The good thing about Sub2k is if you are backpacking and you lose it, or if it’s in your trunk and your car gets stolen… oh well, not exactly like you’re crying over a 5k Blazer. Not every gun has to be a masterpiece. Just my take.

  22. I’ve never understood pistol caliber rifles, its as if someone said “hey! Lets take this perfectly good rifle and modify it so that it fires a vastly inferior cartridge!” Could someone explain this to me?

    • Definitely a niche… Fun, Cheap(er) to shoot, Good for self-defense (in close quarters), Very Low Recoil, Can be very light and portable, Can pair up well with pistol Mags (ie – Sub2K and Glock 33 rounders), always better than a handgun and never better than a rifle. Fits right in between. But once they get to be too complicated, too heavy, too bulky, too expensive, too proprietary (the mags), and end up being a full fledged rifle that shoots a pistol cartridge, for me, they pretty much end up defeating the purpose (which goes directly to your point, I believe). If you got to shoot my (modded up) 9mm Sub2k at the range (along side it’s matching Glock), I think you’d get it. There’s no way a handgun can match that capability and it’s so light and portable, it’s super-handy. It’s also something that if you happened to ever lose or break, you wouldn’t cry yourself to sleep. That makes it fit a few roles such as backpack gun, trunk gun, etc rather well. In the end though, it’s just plain fun. You can easily put 30 rounds into a softball size group at 25 yards as quick as you can pull the trigger. I sure can’t do that with my CZP09. Over 50 yards though, while it can still get there, it starts to lose it’s strength. Kind of like a shottie – but instead of one big boom, you get a bunch of little pops. Just my take….

      • Yeah, that’s the same thing I was talking toward, anyhow. I was shooting 9mm pistols interspersed with .300 subsonic and some supersonic, the SBR accuracy and ease compared to spraying bullets all over with the pistols just makes you want a gun that’s really easy to shoot into that softball at 25 yards. Because fun. But not at $1.25+ per boolit.

    • I’ve just gotten into the idea recently, due to my .300 blk SBR with suppressor. Damn thing is fun to shoot subsonic ammo like crazy, but the stuff in such a specialized caliber is really expensive. Power level is close to .45, shooting without ear protection at short (non-rifle) distances is just a ball. So now I want the same fun level shooting something with a reasonable price, like 9mm. So, pistol caliber (9mm) SBR with suppressor. I just have to figure out what bbl length I want, and I’ll be shopping for brands.

      • I have to say, shooting 300 blk (unsuppressed currently) supersonics (yeah supers, barnes tac tx) through 9″ of free-floated AAC MPW with a Geissele G2, has been the most pleasurable, awesome shooting experience I’ve had (well maybe up there with the full auto MP5 we rented once lol). My first time out with the 300, I shot a freaking clover leaf at 25 yards and the recoil (surprising lack thereof) put a huge smile on my face. To me, it’s the ultimate. Bang on accurate – through a 9″ barrel with less recoil/muzzle rise than a 5.56 through a 16″, and zero flash/almost no blast, and not any louder than a 9mm. And this was without a can or a brake, running a 51T flash hider with a QD brake shield on it…. But yeah, $1+ a round. Ouch. That’s why the Sub2k sees the range much more often than the 300.

  23. Well, the Hi-Point fits my price range, and I don’t find it that ugly (at least not the newer ones), but the 10 round magazine is a real downer. All of the other pistol carbines are north of $600, or are rarer than hen’s teeth.

    Maybe that would be a good use of a 3D printer, machine a compatible magazine that holds more rounds.

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