Chicago gets a lot of digital ink — all of it well earned — for its lack of civility and brotherly love under Democrat leadership for the last ninety-plus years. Now, under the hard-left gun rights-hating “leadership” of Bill de Blasio and now Eric Adams, New York City is falling into ruin. But at least NYC residents don’t have to worry about a good guy carrying a gun on the subways.
In the last couple of days, Chicago had the case of a security guard who worked high profile events steal a man’s Pepsi while riding on a CTA train, then shoot the man dead when he objected to being robbed. All of that happened in front of horrified bystanders.
To that, New York City said hold my beer and watch this. There’s a new video out of urban youths fighting on a subway train and one of them, a 15-year-old, is shot dead right there.
Video shows chaos on subway as 15-year-old is shot and killed https://t.co/EQsaATWtHx pic.twitter.com/gXJJiVIqvo
— New York Post (@nypost) October 22, 2022
“But how could that be?” you ask. After all, pretty much all of New York City is a “sensitive” location – otherwise known as a “gun-free” zone.
Oops, that’s right. That “gun-free” silliness was only ever for the law-abiding. It never has and never will apply to criminals, gang-bangers, or the politically connected.
Like Chicago, after having its budget slashed, the NYPD has faced a flood of retirements and others just quitting. In fact, 4000 of New York’s finest will likely retire or otherwise separate from the department this year. That’s almost half-again more than last year’s impressive numbers. The New York Post has that as well . . .
The NYPD is on pace to see more than 4,000 cops retire or resign this year – the most since the post-9/11 exodus, data obtained by The Post show.
Pension fund figures reveal 3,054 officers have filed to leave the department so far this year — 42% more than the 2,155 who exited at the same time last year through Sept. 30.
The NYPD has worked for over five years without a new contract, and it’s expected to see perhaps as many as 2000 additional retirements if a new contract is approved soon.
What does that mean for the cops who remain? Can you spell mandatory overtime?
See again the New York Post . . .
Gov. Hochul and Mayor Adams said Saturday they will flood the city’s crime-ravaged subway system with more cops and ramp up the installation of additional surveillance cameras.
Their “Cops, Cameras, Care” initiative — announced Saturday at Grand Central Terminal just over two weeks before Hochul tries to retain her seat on Election Day – includes the state-run MTA Police Department and the NYPD joining forces to add 1,200 extra overtime shifts daily to watch over the subway system.
This, they said, would translate into about 10,000 extra hours of cops patrolling subways and that New Yorkers would soon see officers covering subway platforms on extended tours daily in at least 300 stations during peak hours.
Ten thousand extra hours only translates into 1250 8-hour shifts, or less than two weeks to have an extra 20 cops per shift keeping an eye on NYC’s massive 700-plus miles of subway system.
The @NYCMayor and @GovKathyHochul are joining forces to announce “cops, cameras, care”— a new initiative aimed at improving safety on the subways: MTA and NYPD officers will surge system with 1,200 shifts every day, officers present at more than 300 stations during peak hours. pic.twitter.com/UTJvgzBuJv
— Gloria Pazmino (@GloriaPazmino) October 22, 2022
What will 4,000 fewer cops working the streets mean? If you think fewer cops means bucolic streets, then bless your heart. Good luck with that.
Meanwhile, a great piece came out today at The American Spectator on so-called “Weaponized Government Failure.” In it, Scott McKay puts forth his theory that Democrat political leaders intentionally drive the middle class away with lousy services and high taxes to nudge the pesky middle class to move out of their Democrat-controlled cities.
Let’s call it Weaponized Governmental Failure. It’s the single most explicative factor in the breakdown of American political consensus in the 21st century, even though it’s been around since the latter part of the 20th century.
The simple definition of Weaponized Governmental Failure is this: it’s the deliberate refusal to perform the basic tasks of urban governance for a specific political purpose.
The crime and the graft and the potholes and the bad drainage, not to mention the spotty trash collection or nonexistent snow shoveling, aren’t incompetence. In fact, none of what you see in the American public sector is incompetence. The people responsible for it are quite highly educated and well-trained in their craft. You just need to understand what their craft is.
It’s a choice to do a poor job with the more mundane tasks of running a city, and an educated and purposeful choice at that. If you do those things effectively, after all, what you will get is middle-class voters moving in. Middle-class voters tend to choose to live in places where they can expect to get actual value out of their tax dollars — good roads, safe streets, functional drainage, decent schools, a friendly business climate, and a growing economy, among other things — and those things are hard to produce when you govern the way the Left does.
Put a different way, middle-class voters are a pain in the ass.
Those pesky voters who would hold politicians accountable aren’t especially welcome.
For a Landrieu, or a Kwame Kilpatrick, Marion Barry, Bill de Blasio, or Lori Lightfoot, it is no great loss if those middle-class voters declare themselves fed up and decamp to the suburbs. Their exodus simply makes for an electorate that is a lot less demanding and easier to control.
That “white flight” is a feature. It’s not a bug. And it isn’t all that white either. Those suburbs the folks are leaving for? Their minority population share usually increases as their population does. Why do you think that is? Simple: the black middle class has no more use for these woke urban Democrats than the white middle class does.
And it’s quite a mutual sentiment, to be sure.
Drive out the pesky middle class and you’re left with overwhelmingly Democrat-voting masses of poor residents who are dependent on social services. What’s more, if you keep them disarmed and helpless, they’re be even more dependent upon government for their safety and security as well.
The urban socialist Left wants a manageably small core of rich residents and a teeming mass of poor ones, and nothing in between. That’s what Weaponized Governmental Failure produces, and it’s a wide-scale success. New Orleans votes 90 percent Democrat. Philadelphia is 80 percent Democrat. Chicago is 85 percent. Los Angeles? Seventy-one percent. None of those cities will have a Republican mayor or city council again, or at least not in the foreseeable future.
Because there are very few middle-class voters left in the cities.
Some even say this is done on purpose by Democrat political leaders to facilitate the pesky middle class to leave the city, leaving behind the easier to control and manipulate densely packed low income residents.
Welcome to New York City. Like Chicago, it’s hemorrhaging productive residents as they flee the crime-ridden cesspool of high taxes and lousy public services.
The more middle-class voters you drive out of the city, and the fewer middle-class voters your public school system creates, the more pliable the electorate becomes.
A pliable electorate is one you can rule forever without successfully governing.
They rule over a ruin, but they rule.
And the Democrat Party barely exists outside of the ruins those urban machines produce. Check out any county-by-country or congressional district-by-congressional district electoral map from the 2016 or 2020 presidential elections, and what you’ll see is a few islands of blue in a sea of red. Even in blue states like Washington, Oregon, Illinois, and Minnesota most of the territory is solidly Republican; it’s the dense population of Seattle, Portland, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Chicago, Minneapolis, and the other big cities that always, or at least often, overwhelms Republican votes in the suburbs, exurbs, and small towns.
Democrats rule the ruins in decaying, deep blue urban centers, but they still rule. It also goes for small cities like poverty-stricken Braddock, Pennsylvania, a town thrust onto the world stage with its former mayor John Fetterman who’s running for the US Senate. But the problem is more pronounced in major metro centers like New York City and Chicago.
At least they’re still wearing the useless blue masks. As these twisted sick liberal havens continue to flush themselves down the toilet it will be up to the sane places to bail them out via forced gubment tax dollar donations.
That’s all BS. Most of the crime is in RED republican states, where crime rates are higher, and homicide rates are higher per population:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_intentional_homicide_rate#List
You moronic gun phallic strokers need to pull your head out. NY, CA, and many deep blue states are much safer than your gun loaded, wild west, capitalvania, gun slinger zones.
“Ruin!” – please! Look at the crime ridden filth you live in before judging us! Now reign in your gun problem, you “personal responsibility” freaks.
Sweet Baby Jeebus on a Nuclear-Powered Pogo Stick!! dacian the demented dips*** futzes his meds, once again. dacian the dips***, please check the zip codes where those crimes “in red states” occur. Now check the political affiliation of the mayors and city councils. Anything else you’d like to fail at, publicly???
You are FAR too stupid to insult. Go omanize thyself.
He’s already self-fellating.
It’s not like the cops are really allowed to do very much, every decision is second guessed and viewed through the lens of race. New Yorkers (my place of birth) will be left with violent criminals running free, while the police concentrate on enforcing masking and mandates and parking regulations.
Well common sense would say not to step on a man’s back until he stops breathing and then keep standing on him.
But hey, that’s the police, cant have your authority disrespected. Not that I think Floyd was a great guy, but you still have the right to a fair trial, even if you are a scumbag.
Also good to see another doom and gloom article from Boch.
The Floyd deal was a one in ten thousand deal. Please don’t engage in false equivalency. The violence today is COMPLETELY on the left.
Both cities and states have the opportunity in just 16 days to change who and how their government is run. if they choose to not do so . It’s okay to believe they aren’t concerned with the rampant crime and murder rates that are destroying the lives, livelihoods and businesses.
The (majority) of the people of New York have made up their mind that the ONLY way to vote is Democrat. This is the result of that. Those same people refuse to see that though. They generally think the Dems will save them. It’s the same thing in Chicago and SanFranSisco. Pelosi should be made to pay a price for it but too many people hang on every word she utters.
There is no freedom. It’s been replaced with insanity, crime, hurt, and death. Places like this are eating themselves.
You meant to say New York City right?
Same for the state. because it has a veto proof democrat majority in it’s legislature.
Klaus,
I don’t think that commenter Prndll meant to say New York City since New York City’s population is 8 million in a state with a population of 19 million.
Even if every single New York City resident voted Democrat, about 1.5 million additional voters from the rest of the state have to vote Democrat as well in order for Democrats to win elections with 51% of the vote. And last I checked, Democrats were winning statewide races (e.g. Governor, U.S. Senators, and President of the U.S.) in New York with WAY more than 51% of votes.
That means New York as a state–not just New York City–is voting overwhelmingly for Democrats.
Let’s ask AOC.
Zelden is up by one possibly more last I heard. With that said yes there are more democrats than republicans no matter how they vote and unless we have some wild surprises the legislature will likely still be democratic hopefully not veto proof though. And if I am totally wrong well no difference from current issues.
I meant exactly what I said. This isn’t simply about New York City. That IS a big part of it but ONLY a part.
AOC A nother O bnoxious C ommunist.
With NY outside of NYC we have Albany, Buffalo, Syracuse, and Rochester that can negate the upstate vote after we have been building high density housing for NYC’s poor and homeless in those cities for the last decade to effectively export the NYC vote. But we also lost over a million residents (and a congressional seat) over the last few years so will be interesting to see how things go.
Los Angeles is a little different than back East cities. It is so spread out and much of the city is suburbs – many are run down, but some have turned because the people that work DTLA do not want to commute 90 min or more one way to work. We could see a change here, also many Hispanics vote conservative and only need someone to rally to.
We can at least pray this will happen.
I think the term “townships” might be more appropriate than suburbs. Shanty towns are being set up in any clear space.
“…also many Hispanics vote conservative and only need someone to rally to.”
I would amend this to say that they WANT to vote conservative…but their choices are slim to none. What’s considered conservative in LA (and CA writ large) is *very* different outside of the state. Whether that’s the newly acquired residents or those who are generationally ingrained to this way of life.
In a lot of cases (not all), they vote for who they are told to vote for…whether they believe that the candidate is ‘conservative’ is irrelevant. They’re from the neighborhood, they understand us, son del barrio y son de la raza. Estan con nosotros. You can see a little of that in the recent dustup regarding the redistricting of the city and calls for resignations from the City Council.
Except in private they are as racist as the most rabid KKK Grand Dragon or whatever they call it. Three LA council members and a “woke” union member were recorded having a private discussion on how to gerrymander voting districts to favor La Raza and had rather uncomplimentary things to say about the queer LA city councilman and his black adopted child as well as hispanics who were non-Mexican. One councilwoman resigned. The other two have dug in their heels and refuse to resign despited demonstrators who must demonstrate 300 feet from his residence, so they get to demonstrate and beat drums in front of his neighbors’ houses. Bet that makes for great neighborhood get-togethers.
So far the LA city council has been unable to conduct business — is that a bad thing — due to demonstrators at city council meetings.
> As Cities Descend Into Ruins
Oh, shut the fuck up you gigantic babies.
These cities are not “in ruins”.
Absolutely snowflakes, you all are.
(Besides the obvious racism. You assholes.)
Citations please
“As Cities Descend Into Ruins“
Citations please.
Seriously, I was told it Portland was a smoking ruin, but it doesn’t seem to be the case. I’m still really wanting to see the cities turned into smoking ruins, can someone give me some specific locations of burnt out city blocks, thanks!
He made a few assertions and I asked for citations. You provided none to support his assertions either.
Detroit for a start.
Deep blue dots like Memphis and Birmingham may not be smoking, but they’re abandoned.
MINOR Miner49er Please tell me you are kidding? You think Chicago is a thriving metropolis? How about LA? Philadelphia? Each of these cities and you can add New York to it, have descended into utter chaos with the criminal element running amuck.
Tell us you haven’t been to Portland without saying you haven’t… There are major sections that look like the bad parts of Robocop’s Detroit.
I can’t speak to Portland or any other cesspool but for LA, all one has to do is drive around city hall and the county courthouse neighborhood to see streets filled with trash, human waste products, people shooting up, people passed out from whatever on the sidewalks . . . oh, did I mention downtown ‘Frisco? Of course, if none of that bothers you, why, then, no, the cities are not in ruins. If looking like some bottom of the rung third world country bothers you, why, yes, one might used the term “in ruins” to describe the conditions. Some estimate the number of “homeless” to reach as high as 69,000 in LA. Now these are not folks who are just down on their luck and trying to rise up out of the mire. They are folks who upon being offered a chance to dry out, clean up and get a productive life refuse the opportunity because they like their lifestyle. They get supplemental social security because Barry Obammer had the SSI rules changed so that self-induced alcoholism or dug addiction is now a disability. Thus they are no longer on the unemployed roles. That’s one way to drop the unemployed rates. They then qualify for MediCal, totally free medical care; EBT cards, free cell phones, food at Food Share, they can line up for free meals provided by doo-gooder organizations (that is not a typo) — the list goes on.
Heres an idea for you. Come on up to Mpls. and ride the light rail between there and the capital. Or maybe drive around uptown for a dinner and a show.
Leave the gat at home. If you actually look like your pic, you’ll get off lucky – only robbed or carjacked. Look more like a pic negative? Maybe we can introduce the latest black on black gangbanger hit and break the record again. And yes, the city literally burned to the ground. Now go try peddling your bullshit elsewhere you fucking loser.
“And yes, the city literally burned to the ground“
So your claim is “the city literally burned to the ground”?
Well, that’s tragic… So where did the 424,000 people that make up the population of Minneapolis move to?
Somalia? No that’s where the SOBs squatting in the Twin Cities arrived from.
Commenter jsled demonstrates the peculiarities of the human mind, especially a prevalent human trait known in the psychology world as “confirmation bias”.
jsled simply despises a large class of people for whatever reason (or quite possibly no reason) and therefore declares that he/she sees “obvious racism” in their statements. Of course many other people see no such obvious racism since the facts and conclusions in the article never mentioned race. And along comes confirmation bias–jsled claiming to see something to confirm his/her own bias even though that something isn’t actually there.
Who needs facts when you have confirmation bias?
No, its just an idiotic (paid) progtard.
“New York City Joins Chicago As Cities Descend Into Ruin”
The line means, in context with the article, ‘in ruins’ in terms of ‘harmed or damaged’, not physically ‘in ruins’ as in physically destroyed, collapsed, or decayed (although there is some of that because ‘basic infrastructure’ is being largely ignored or slowed down in these cities such as, for example, sanitation as part of the ‘Weaponized Governmental Failure’ tactics).
“ruin” also means ‘The state of being extensively harmed or damaged.’
The cities have been ‘harmed or damaged’ by the democrat leadership. They have literally descended into (this) ruin through the application of the democrat harmful and damaging policies and management and governance intentionally driving out the middle class to achieve a controllable ‘lower class’ population for the purpose of maintaining political power and financial gain.
The obvious racism here is on the part of these cities, their democrat leadership appeal to the emotional ‘appearance’ of ‘racism problem solving’ to maintain power is using the black population to continue racial polarization for political and financial gain.
A city claims to have a racism problem (in this case the ones created by the democrat leadership) … federal government pours funds (through the state) to your city coffers to ‘solve’ the problem with more ‘social programs’ focused (supposedly) on the ‘racially disadvantaged’. The more ‘racially disadvantaged’ help appearance (which is never actually realized in other than token efforts to say something is being done) the more likely the ‘recipients’ of such are to vote for the leadership party that gave it to them. Drive out the middle class and you are left (largely) with a population that is heavily racially biased democrat (in these cities). Thus the top of the (in this case currently) 13% of the U.S. population establishes their ultimate goal of having basically their own ‘countries’ and political power base within the U.S. in the form of cities like these composed of ‘ignorant’ racially biased voters who have been used by the democrats to maintain financial gain and political power and this ‘ignorant’ base doesn’t even realized it and are basically trained to accept what they get and be happy with it and raise a future generation of democrat voters. These tactics are why these cities and states have been able to maintain a democrat power base for so long.
Ah, I see our cowardly commie, jsled, has emerged from his groundhog burrow, briefly. Having glimpsed the truth, he returns to his hibernation. Two more weeks of rule by idiots. Then comes the vote, and we’ll all get to witness, firsthand, how a “free and fair” vote results in the “end of democracy” – because people are going to vote their own interests, instead of what “the smart folks” want. Quelle horreur!!! Someone might not vote for jsled’s preferred Leftist/fascist pervert creep!!! How SHALL we survive without “Drag Queen Story Hour” at our local library???? Or John “I’m an ugly, lazy, failed trust-fund baby retard” Fetterman not being anointed as a member of the Senate???? Or Katie Hobbs being told, emphatically, to take ALL the seats? Or Malig-Nancy getting sent to her undeserved (but well-compensated) reward, at the taxpayers’ expense?
Do you have any actual thoughts, jsled, or do you just reflexively vomit DNC “talking points”??? Go roger yourself, jsled, vigorously.
Oh, ok, no problems then. We see you leftist leopard. The insanity on the left is orders of magnitude greater than the few bananas on the right. Wise up comrade.
Very good article and commentary.
I will suggest a significant correction though: the middle-class suburbs of large cities vote largely for Democrats as well.
Take the city of Detroit for example. Detroit’s population is only about 670,000 residents, a very tiny number compared to the state’s population of nearly 10 million people. And yet Michigan reliably votes for Democrat U.S. Senators and often for Democrat Governors and Presidents as well. How can that be? Simple: the middle-class (and even upper-class) suburbs of Detroit vote largely in lock-step with the city of Detroit.
While Detroit’s population is only 670,000 or so, the Detroit metropolitan area (Detroit plus the suburbs) is about 4.4 million, just shy of half of the state’s entire population. Thus, even though the remaining middle-class population in small towns and rural areas are rock-solid Conservatives voting overwhelmingly for Republicans, the state usually votes for Democrats for Governor, U.S. Senate, and President of the U.S. And that requires an overwhelming majority of those middle-class and upper-class suburban voters to vote Democrat, just like the poor residents of the city of Detroit.
I left NYC in 1983. In the ’80s and ’90s, New York City was — believe it or not — worse than it is now. Way worse. Things didn’t improve very much until Giuliani was elected mayor on an anti-crime platform. He delivered.
Even before the ’80s, I remember how dangerous the City was. People were actually encouraged to carry “mugger money” so that the street thugs wouldn’t be pissed off at victims with no money, provoking extreme violence.
Now, NYC is backsliding. The reason that I have no confidence that NYC can make a comeback as it did in 1994 is demographics. It’s a minority majority city now, and will vote accordingly no matter what.
Kiss NYC goodbye.
Ralph,
“People were actually encouraged to carry ‘mugger money’ …”
Several years ago I heard a similar sentiment: prudent men and women in New York City carried a secondary/fake wallet with a modest amount of money it which they would hand-over if someone robbed them. Thus, if someone robbed you, you would toss your secondary/fake wallet in their general direction and run away as they went for that secondary/fake wallet.
Let’s be brutally honest about the actual root cause of large city decay:
— The root cause is NOT Democrat leadership.
— The root cause is NOT ethnic minority populations.
— The root cause is NOT defunding police.
— The root cause IS lack of Judeo-Christian values.
In the absence of Judeo-Christian values, nothing restrains abhorrent behavior: why not rob, cheat, steal, rape, pillage, and plunder?
And a shout-out to all of you Darwinian Evolution adherents: what you see happening in Chicago and New York City is simply survival of the fittest. The strongest do as they please–robbing, cheating, stealing, raping, pillaging, and plundering the weak and stupid. Thus when a “thug” shoves a “victim” onto the subway track, that “victim” was simply weak and stupid and deserved it. When a “thug” sucker-punches a “victim”, that “victim” was simply weak and stupid and deserved it. When a “thug” rapes a woman, that woman was simply weak and stupid and deserved it. And so on and so forth.
Here’s an example of ”Judeo-Christian values“ directly from their most sacred holy book:
Numbers 31:17-18 KJV
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Fascinating, but I think I’ll pass on those particular ‘values’.
Yet WAY too much prog DNA survived. Sad.
Miner49er,
It is beyond the scope of this website to reconcile the harsh concepts in those verses with a loving Creator. I will simply whet your appetite with an applicable parallel. World War II brought humongous danger to masses of people in Europe. One family was constantly fleeing Russian advances. At one point, one of the children was goofing off and the father punished that child severely for failing to stay very close to the family and on-task. In today’s context that punishment is indefensible. At the time, however, it made perfect sense: staying very close to the family and on-task literally had life-and-death consequences and the father had to ensure that his child would never goof off again.
Aside from an understanding of those directives when they were in force roughly 3500 years ago, I have a simple question for you: how many Jews and Christians in the last, oh I don’t know, 500 years have been claiming that God wants us to uphold those verses today? Better yet, please find support for the idea/directive of those verses which you listed in the Bible’s New Testament.
“how many Jews and Christians in the last, oh I don’t know, 500 years have been claiming that God wants us to uphold those verses today?”
I’m so glad to hear that the Jews and Christians have discarded the Old Testament, I think we’re making some progress here!
So no more ‘If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death‘, I’m glad to hear that ‘value’ has been abandoned.
I do think it’s rather strange that those who follow the Bible somehow believe that owning people as property, beating them anytime you like and passing them on as an inheritance to your children, was ever an upstanding moral value.
In my opinion, biblical slavery was wrong then, wrong for the first 100 years of America and it is wrong now.
Do you prefer “The Party”‘s ethics and values?
Considering The Party historically has treated people as consumable and disposable and tries to consume and dispose of people while they can.
@Miner49er
“Here’s an example of ”Judeo-Christian values“ directly from their most sacred holy book: …” (I did not quote the rest of your incorrect musings, its simply ignorant.)
The term ”Judeo-Christian values“ does not mean what you think it does. You evidently do not understand that which you quote or the bible. That which you quote is not an “example’ of ”Judeo-Christian values“,
”Judeo-Christian values“ refers to and means a value system of morals (foundation) common to Jews and Christians. For example, don’t steal or rape or murder or lie or cheat. Everything that is happening today, in context with this article, in Chicago and New York can be traced back to the diminishing and demise of ”Judeo-Christian values“ in these cities by the democrat leadership by their actions and inaction.
That diminishing and demise you obviously support and condone in your ignorance.
“For example, don’t steal or rape… “
Could you please refresh my memory on which verse in the Bible bans rape, I can’t find it in the 10 Commandments.
I’m also not finding a particular Bible verse banning child sexual abuse. In fact, I found many verses that seem to encourage child sex-assault.
And incest is another interesting ‘value’, Abraham marrying his half-sister Sarah to start the whole thing off.
So I guess we have answered the proverbial question, in early Israel, if you get divorced she’s still your sister…
@Miner49er
Once again you show your ignorance of the bible. this is not the place for a lesson in the Bible, so I’m going to be short here as there is a lot to it.
“Could you please refresh my memory on which verse in the Bible bans rape. I can’t find it in the 10 Commandments.”
Once again you show an ignorance of what ”Judeo-Christian values“ (AKA ‘Judaeo-Christian ethics’) values refer to. ”Judeo-Christian values“ are not the 10 commandments.
The Bible does address the issue of rape. When the Bible mentions the crime of (what we call today) rape, it is told as a gross violation of God’s design for the treatment of the human body (Genesis 34). The Bible condemns (what we call today) rape.
Deuteronomy 22:23–29 speaks directly against forcing a woman into a sexual encounter against her will, in other words what we today call rape.
“I’m also not finding a particular Bible verse banning child sexual abuse. In fact, I found many verses that seem to encourage child sex-assault.
And incest is another interesting ‘value’, Abraham marrying his half-sister Sarah to start the whole thing off.”
No, you didn’t find many verses “that seem to encourage child sex-assault.” You found verses that mention child sex-assault or speak of actions that were child sex-assault. But it is never “encouraged” in the Bible.
Bad criminal people still existed in biblical days just as they are allowed to roam free today by the Democrats. So even back then there was rape and child sexual abuse/assault – and even then there were penalties for doing it but today the Democrats let them roam free among the prey.
Incest was outlined in some situations in the bible, but the Hebrew Bible (the Tanakh) also prohibited incest. These prohibitions are found predominantly in Leviticus 18:7–18 and 20:11–21, but also in Deuteronomy. But there was a time before rabbinic interpretations and prohibitions on incest on incest and it being forbidden by God, and such was mostly left up to tribal interpretation then, for example, Abraham marrying his half-sister Sarah came from tribal marriage alliances interpretation and at that time marriage between family members had not yet been forbidden by God although being ‘forced’ into an incest situation was forbidden. The tribal alliance interpretation of the time allowed Abraham to take Sarah as his wife, it was a mutual agreement and such was not forbidden by God at the time.
child sex abuse/assault, rape, incest is never defined as a ‘value’ in the bible in either the old or new testament.
Incest, as its told in the bible, is either a matter of ‘relationship’ or ‘abuse’, or ‘permitted’ or ‘prohibited’ by ‘interpretation’. The times were different back then. Incest was mostly open to interpretation based on either the rabbinic interpretations in the Talmud (for the Jews), OR ‘tribal’ interpretation, OR denominational interpretation – and these changed from time to time. However, sexual abuse incest was never condoned in the bible even though it may have happened.
Basically and briefly; ”Judeo-Christian values“ (the term) was coined, indirectly, in a book review by the English writer George Orwell in 1939. In the review he used the phrase “the Judaeo-Christian scheme of morals”. The concept of Orwell’s phrase became popular in the 1940’s as ”Judeo-Christian values“. Although the basic concept that evolved into modern day was in use by Jewish and Christian leaders around 1927, Orwell put a ‘conceptual term’ to it with his phrase.
Its not in the 10 commandments, but rather as its invention in concept around 1927 that evolved into the modern day. Its based upon the moral foundations including those in the 10 commandments AND that of other moral foundations or prohibition in the bible as common ground that was adopted for the underpinning of laws in the United States, originally common to Jews and Christians thus the term ”Judeo-Christian values“ which is also known as ‘Judaeo-Christian ethics’.
Like I said before, and apparently you did not understand….
The term ”Judeo-Christian values“ does not mean what you think it does. You evidently do not understand that which you quote or the bible. That which you quote is not an “example’ of ”Judeo-Christian values“,
”Judeo-Christian values“ refers to and means a value system of morals (foundation) common to Jews and Christians. For example, don’t steal or rape or murder or lie or cheat. (to add: these are just examples)
OK, I did not cover every little detail, there is a lot to this but this is basically it for your questions.
Tribal warfare. That’s how they prevented the opposing tribe from regrouping and coming back to attack them again in the future.
Regarding the other verse, what’s the ultimate penalty for treason in modern times?
Found it.
18 U.S. Code § 2381 – Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
“Regarding the other verse, what’s the ultimate penalty for treason in modern times?“
Fascinating, it seems you are equating treason against the state with worshiping another God besides Jehovah.
That’s rather troubling.
You do know the US constitution has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible or any religion, and expressly forbids any particular religious test, right?
Miner,
You were talking about the book of Deuteronomy which is from the Old Testament. Yes, worshiping other gods was considered treason. The penalty was death. I merely noted that our current ultimate penalty for treason is also death. I only brought up our current laws to better help you understand the context of the Old Testament text which you were talking about.
“Yes, worshiping other gods was considered treason“
Do you have a single instance of worshiping other gods being called ‘treason’?
“That’s how they prevented the opposing tribe from regrouping and coming back to attack them again in the future“
Are you suggesting this was the purpose of biblical slavery?
Because that’s not what Jehovah said, he provided specific instructions on how slaves were to be procured:
Leviticus 25:44-46
“44 “‘Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. 45 You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property. 46 You can bequeath them to your children as inherited property and can make them slaves for life, but you must not rule over your fellow Israelites ruthlessly.“
There’s no mention of “tribal warfare”, it’s strictly about purchasing other people and holding them “for life as property”.
I’m sorry, but I consider those instructions the height of immorality, there’s no excuse.
Miner,
Treason is betraying allegiance to your country. A person guilty of treason is a traitor. It is considered the highest of all crimes. All sin is treason against God. Idolatry is betraying your allegiance to God. The government of this time period was a theocracy. Therefore idolatry was considered treasonous behavior, punishable by death. I’m sure you can find some reading material on these subjects if you look for it.
I’m not interested in playing whack-a-mole with a disingenuous person. I didn’t suggest anything other than what I stated. I know from years of interacting with you that you have no interest in trying to understand anything. All you do is change the subject. I responded to a specific comment. I would be more willing to spend time and energy responding to you (like I’ve done before) if you were actually a sincere person. I’ve treated you like one in the past. I’m done with that.
For clarity, here’s the specific comment I responded to:
Miner49er October 23, 2022 At 18:30
Here’s an example of ”Judeo-Christian values“ directly from their most sacred holy book:
@Miner49er
“Do you have a single instance of worshiping other gods being called ‘treason’?”
what a stupid question. Words used today were not the words used in the biblical days. You know that, only an idiot doesn’t. But if you gotta…treason also means..
“trea·son
[ˈtrēzən]
NOUN
the action of betraying someone or something:
‘doubt is the ultimate treason against faith’ ”
Exodus 20:3, the first of the Ten Commandments God gave to Moses reads thus (from the English Standard Version of the Bible assuming you known english which I am beginning to doubt): “You shall have no other gods before me”
In that context, to have another god before God is treason as its betraying God and his commandment. So yes, worshiping other gods was considered (in today’s language) treason.
“Are you suggesting this was the purpose of biblical slavery?”
He suggested no such thing.
“There’s no mention of ‘tribal warfare’, it’s strictly about purchasing other people and holding them ‘for life as property’.
False.
It was common for engagements in tribal type warfare back then to take prisoners, these were either released or kept as slaves. It doesn’t need to mention tribal warfare, it was common.
yes, slavery was not prohibited by God or scripture. Slavery has been common in all cultures through human history. Even native Africans enslaved other native Africans.
“I’m sorry, but I consider those instructions the height of immorality, there’s no excuse.”
Oh boo hoo… someone wrote some instructions thousands of years ago and now being long dead you want to make it an inane talking point so you can have something to argue. Are you like 12 years old? Take your faked outrage somewhere else.
Gee, MajorStupidity, did anyone ever explain to you the differences between the Old Testament, and the New Testament??? NO???? Didn’t think so. You’re too stupid to draw breath, let alone too stupid to insult.
Major fail, MajorStupidity. Before you essay to further insult Christianity, it might behoove an INTELLIGENT person (which automatically excludes you) to actually learn something about the creed which they presume to “criticize” (i.e., slander). You are an uneducated, simple-minded buffoon, MajorStupidity, and you do yourself no favors to attempt to cite ‘relevant’ Scripture when you know not whereof thou speakest.
In addition to remaining irredeemably stupid, you remain irredeemably ignorant as well. Fortunately, ignorance CAN be cured, by a sufficiently intelligent and well-intentioned person who seeks to better his/her knowledge. Unfortunately, you are neither intelligent NOR well-intentioned, and you are quite stupid. As RAH noted, “Stupidity is its own death sentence.” May you receive your just reward, and that right soon.
If this is all you have culled from the Bible then you are truly a leftist moron.
“Darwinian Evolution… survival of the fittest“
Darwin never used md the term survival of the fittest.
Darwin didn’t think big claws etc, strength or speed was the most important survival characteristic.
Darwin thought the ability to adapt to changing situations and environments was the most important survival trait, leading to a successful population.
The lack of adaptability is exactly why conservative regimes always fail.
So you’re saying that the white house is a conservative regime right now?
(snicker)
Miner49er doesn’t know what hes saying. He makes up these inane points to argue and feel relevant, like you know, a left wing liberal.
Well it appears to most people that the Conservative lead states are much safer, cleaner, and more prosperous when compared to democrat held cities/states(read shitholes). How would you explain that?
“Well it appears to most people that the Conservative lead states are much safer, cleaner, and more prosperous“
“How would you explain that?“
Really, I can’t explain why it “appears” to most people, maybe because they’re stupid and aren’t paying attention to the actual facts of the situation?
“Now, for the rest of the story. In a report Third Way recently released, we found that murder was much more prevalent in red states than blue states. That’s right. In 2020, homicide rates were a stunning 40 percent higher in the 25 states that former President Donald Trump won compared to the 25 won by current President Joe Biden. Of the 10 states with the highest 2020 per capita murder rates in America, eight of them not only voted for Trump in 2016 and 2020, they voted Republican in every presidential election this century.
Mississippi — a state that neither conjures up weak on crime images nor Democratic officeholders — topped the charts with a 2020 murder rate twice that of blue Illinois, thrice that of bluer California, and four times that of bluest New York.“
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3274797-we-have-a-murder-problem-in-america-especially-in-red-states/amp/
“For example, Jacksonville, a city with a Republican mayor, had 128 more murders in 2020 than San Francisco, a city with a Democrat mayor, despite their comparable populations. In fact, the homicide rate in Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s San Francisco was half that of House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy’s Bakersfield, a city with a Republican mayor that overwhelmingly voted for Trump. Yet there is barely a whisper, let alone an outcry, over the stunning levels of murders in these and other places.“
https://www.thirdway.org/report/the-red-state-murder-problem
And how many of those murders are gang related in blue cities within the red states. Damn Miner you are cherry picking so hard you are getting apples and oranges and using them for comparison.
Seattle is a great example of progressive mental illess. My daughter tells me there is an area downtown rife with fine restaurants. Her boyfriend (and his family) are food snobs and love to eat there. Food Snob: he thinks diners are de-classe’ (I love diners).
She told him she does not feel safe in this dining district due to the rampant presence of homeless people. Many of them are mentally ill and/or drug addicted. She says they yell at passers-by and at each other. They panhandle. She says she and her boyfriend have been followed.
My daughter is Korean and weighs barely 105 lbs. Her boyfriend is Vietnamese; I would be surprised if he clocks in at 120 lbs. And he is no Bruce Lee. He is a wuss.
She told him she is uncomfortable in the dining district for the above reasons.
Now, here is a classic example of progressivism as a mental illness:
He chided her for having a discriminatory attitude toward the homeless and the drug-addicted.
He says it is her fault for feeling unsafe. That it is a character flaw of hers.
Apparently, he believes it is virtuous to walk among potentially dangerous people and to ignore their plight in order to spend large sums of money at expensive eateries.
She is beginning to see that he is not the right guy for her. She is back here in PA now. He is coming to visit in two weeks. He and I are going to have a conversation about putting my daughter at risk. I will tell him, plainly, that if anything happens to her because he exposed her to danger, I will explain the meaning of danger to him.
Can always drop him off in Philly so he can see how quickly the homeless people that shouldn’t be judged can escalate. Can’t imagine much of the city improved after the last decade or so…..or NYC where he can learn what “asian hate” is about but either way not sure you want him getting that much of an education based on your description of him.
I would suggest your daughter find an actual man and not another women like the one she is currently dating.
Odd though, most Asians I have encoutered are conservative. To the point I stopped dating white women almost completely it was so much of an improvement.
@LifeSavor
“He and I are going to have a conversation about putting my daughter at risk. I will tell him, plainly, that if anything happens to her because he exposed her to danger, I will explain the meaning of danger to him.”
She is already seeing hes not the right guy for her, so use that. If it were my daughter I’d explain the meaning of danger to him upon his arrival before he even saw her. He has already endangered her, already put her at risk, and that I could not abide for my daughter.
“Seattle is a great example of progressive mental illess“
I’m not sure it has anything to do with the progressive movement, Jacksonville, Florida (with a Republican mayor in a republican state), has a higher violent crime rate then Seattle:
Violent Crime
Seattle, WA Jacksonville, FL
32.3 33.9
https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/seattle_wa/jacksonville_fl/crime
So, to summarize . . . the difference in the relative crime rates is within the “margin of error” of the study, amirite????
You’re too easy, MajorStupidity. You have that unfailing Leftist/fascist flaw – you believe your own bulls***. Per Stone and Parker, you’re “in love with the smell of your own farts”. Enjoy the aroma, MajorStupidity, so you’ll have a good memory to rely on to survive your slow starvation under the tender leadership of your idiot Leftist/fascists, like Malig-Nancy, Schumucky Chuckie, Senile Joe, and their ilk. To be a Leftist/fascist, you must ‘believe seven impossible things before breakrfast’ – like that Senile Joe wasn’t an ineffectual idiot of a lying politician BEFORE he became senile. Oh, and he was always a pervert, too. Tell me, did Kavanaugh shower with his daughters, MajorStupidity??? Did he pick up, diddle, and drug to death black, gay hookers, like a Dim fundraiser???
You are simply too stupid to insult, to stupid and useless to be permitted to steal oxygen, and too worthless to pollute the planet. Go expire in an excavation.
“the difference in the relative crime rates is within the “margin of error” of the study, amirite“
Yes, that is correct, there is no difference between the relative crime rates of Seattle and Jacksonville.
Which shows clearly that Lifesavor’s (sic) statement above is bullshit:
“LifeSavor
October 23, 2022 At 18:26
Seattle is a great example of progressive mental illess“
And the facts show that blue states have much lower violent crime and murder rates the red states so claiming Seattle is especially dangerous because of a progressive mindset is more intentional disinformation.
“Mississippi — a state that neither conjures up weak on crime images nor Democratic officeholders — topped the charts with a 2020 murder rate twice that of blue Illinois, thrice that of bluer California, and four times that of bluest New York.“
https://thehill.com/opinion/campaign/3274797-we-have-a-murder-problem-in-america-especially-in-red-states/amp/
If it wasn’t for disinformation conservatives would have no information at all.
Yet the safer areas of NY are not deep blue havens somehow.
If this country could instantly disappear one small, specific demographic then the crime rate would drop significantly overnight. Just a very tiny proportion of the males, around 3-5%, commit over 50% of the murders in this country. How is that statistically possible? Its absurd that such a small proportion of people could cause so much mayhem and destruction and yet nothing is done about it. In fact, they are given the leeway to do so by those in charge. Everyone knows who the problem is, they’re just unable to say it out loud. Hell, I can’t even say it b/c my comment will be deleted. That’s how protected they are. We have to remain quiet while they share their culture with the rest of us.
They picked up their culture from their former overseers and owners. Urban ghetto culture is descended from southern white cracker culture which in turn is from Scots and Irish highland culture.
Caber toss and kilts leads to drive by shooting. You heard it here first.
Hey faker, watch some of Thomas Sowell’s videos on this topic.
Culture and language history is interesting. Portions of US black culture was influenced by southern white culture for obvious reasons. See also: cuisine and religion.
“They picked up their culture from their former overseers and owners“
You are correct.
But I’m not sure I would use the term “picked up”, I think it would be more accurate to say they were forced to adopt the culture of their owners.
When the ruling culture in America forcibly brutalized and murdered Black people, forced them to labor long hours under dangerous conditions and selling their children into more lifetime slavery for 250 years, you can do some serious damage to the oppressed race’s attitudes and culture.
What I find fascinating is that the ruling culture that committed these atrocities against humanity for 250 years, somehow blames the post traumatic stress of the oppressed people on the very oppressed people who suffered the crime and injustice.
I think the ruling class is also oblivious to the poison and damage they did to the minds of their own members and their descendants.
MajorStupidity,
OOOH!!!!! COOL STORY, BRO!!!!
Now do slavery, raiding, and rape among Native American tribes. And capture and sale of black slaves from other tribes by BLACK tribal leaders in Africa. Or modern-day slavery in Asian and majority Muslim countries.
Why are you a stupid @$$holes, MajorStupidity??? Is it simply too difficult for you to actually acknowledge reality, or does it suit your (warped) purposes to be intentionally untruthful???
Enjoy November 8, MajorStupidity – I KNOW I will!! Got the popcorn ready, and I expect Leftist/fascist tears to be in AMPLE supply. I’ll think about you, as you lie in a fetal position, whimpering in agony as your Leftist/fascist fantasies crash around your empty head . . . and laugh my freakin’ @$$ off. Sucks to be you, dunnit, MajorStupidity??
@SCW
“…they’re just unable to say it out loud. Hell, I can’t even say it b/c my comment will be deleted.”
You mean you could not say…
Black males make up ~6% of the population yet commit ~60% of the crime. Blacks comitt murder at 3 times the rate of whites.
.40 cal,
Not sure where your stats are from, but . . . if 6% of the population commits 60% of the crime, that would be 10 times the rate of other components of the population.
And the reality is that a very small proportion of that 6% commit the overwhelming majority of that 60%.
It is NOT a racial or a “black” problem. It is, most definitely, a cultural problem, in this instance, one might reasonably identify it as “young, black, male ‘urban’ culture” – if you consider gangbanging a “culture”.
three comments—-
1- in nyc crime was under reported to make people feel safe–i guess it worked
2- using religion to prove how stupid you are, just proves how stupid you are
3- what ever happened to the ‘three strikes you’re out’ in the court system—i know it means that most of the latest judicial garbage has to be changed back about a hundred years, but i’m sure there were fewer criminals…
Wall off all the major cities and dump all the nations criminals in as several giant prisons.
Bashing religion does not make you smart.
“Weaponized Government Failure” is a more recent term for an old redistributionist tactic. The “Curley Effect” takes its name from a Boston mayor who served four nonconsecutive terms from 1914 to 1950. Here is the link to a short explanatory essay: https://www.discoverthenetworks.org/organizations/the-curley-effect
Currently, state and local Democratic politicians who employ a form of this tactic by nullifying criminal justice systems are completely indifferent to the suffering and death that they are knowingly inflicting on individuals and families who have the misfortune to encounter emboldened criminals. Those politicians, with one or two exceptions, have yet to pay a price at the polls because, as the author of the linked essay writes, the voters who remain in large Democrat-controlled cities “become unable to perceive the connection between left-wing policies and their negative consequences.” Only a massive shift in perception among those voters can defeat this tactic. The upcoming election results from urban hellholes will show whether there is any hope for such a shift.
“Blacks comitt murder at 3 times the rate of whites“
Let me offer you a slightly different perspective…
It is more accurate to say:
Blacks are ‘convicted’ of murder at 3x the rate of whites.
The fact is, we have had a systemic racial bias baked into our criminal justice system for over 200 years. A good example is in Louisiana, who’s Supreme Court has upheld Jim Crow murder convictions that have been shown to be unconstitutional:
On May 10, the Louisiana Supreme Court will hear arguments to determine whether the state must grant new trials to approximately 1,500 people who were convicted under a Jim Crow-era jury practice.
The practice of convictions by nonunanimous juries in Louisiana dates back to 1898. During a post-Civil War constitutional convention, the state legislature chose to set the bar for convictions on noncapital felonies at nine of 12 jurors.
These were nicknamed “Jim Crow Jury” convictions because of the role that they played in implicitly maintaining white supremacy in Louisiana.”
“Their convictions were unconstitutional. Why are 1500 people still in prison in Louisiana?”
Misty Castile
Shreveport Times
https://www.shreveporttimes.com/story/news/2022/05/09/1500-people-louisiana-get-new-trials-state-high-court-decide-jim-crow-jury-convictions/9643889002/
MajorStupidity,
So, other than tendentious, unsupported “opinion” articles, do you have any ACTUAL evidence that young, male African-Americans DO NOT commit crimes at a rate approx. 3x higher than the remainder of the US population, or are you just spouting bulls***, as usual???
It is NOT an ethnic or a racial issue. It is most definitely a cultural issue. But I guess acknowledging that would totally ruin your bulls*** Leftist/fascist narrative, wouldn’t it, MajorStupidity?
Do you ENJOY being a buffoon, MajorStupidity?? Because you obsessively pursue being a buffoon, with every post you make. Perhaps you have that whole Sacher-Masoch thing going, and you just get off on being mocked and ridiculed?
Just cope harder, MajorStupidity, some day the rest of your Leftist/fascist cohort will realize that YOU were the TRUE leader of the Leftist/fascists, and they will let you run your very own “re-education camp” to convert the few sane people remaining among us. Or you’ll die a miserable failure of a dumbass Leftist/fascist troll, whichever comes first. Wanna place a bet????
“do you have any ACTUAL evidence that young, male African-Americans DO NOT commit crimes at a rate approx. 3x higher“
Here is direct evidence of at least 1500 wrongful convictions under a racially biased law that has since been repealed.
“the Louisiana Supreme Court will hear arguments to determine whether the state must grant new trials to approximately 1,500 people who were convicted under a Jim Crow-era jury practice.
The practice of convictions by nonunanimous juries in Louisiana dates back to 1898“
So you don’t as usual.
40oz, you claim:
“He suggested no such thing.”
Yes, he did:
“Dude
October 24, 2022 At 08:44
Tribal warfare. That’s how they prevented the opposing tribe from regrouping and coming back to attack them”
No problem with your misreading, I understand ESL can be difficult.
“There’s no mention of ‘tribal warfare’, it’s strictly about purchasing other people and holding them ‘for life as property’.
False.“
You are incorrect, in the Bible, Jehovah give specific instructions that the Israelites are to buy their slaves from the heathen nations around them. There is no specific mention of taking slaves in travel warfare, end it is in bearing false witness to claim that these were Jehovah’s instructions in the Bible.
“Words used today were not the words used in the biblical days.“
Correct, which is why using the word ‘treason’ the context of worshiping other gods is incorrect.
Dude is attempting a literal sleight-of-hand, conflating treason against our government with blasphemy against his God.
God, faith, religion and other superstitions have no place or context with our Constitution or government, it is expressly forbidden by our purely secular constitution.
“Oh boo hoo… someone wrote some instructions thousands of years ago and now being long dead you want to make it an inane talking point“
Wow, your casual blasphemy of the God you claim to worship is fascinating.
“someone wrote some instructions thousands of years ago“
“someone”? Do you mean the Lord God creator of the universe and his wacky ‘10 Commandments’?
The fact is, your God gave specific instructions the Israelites were to buy human beings from the heathen nations that surround them, beat them when they wished, own them as property and hand them down to their children in perpetuity.
Far from being the supreme moral arbiter of all that is good, your God gave specific instructions in his holy Word to enslave other people as cattle.
Your perfect moral God also gave instructions to kill women and children, saving only virgin girls for themselves, Jehovah-ordained child sexual assault and slavery.
God had no problem telling people not to wear clothes of two different fabrics, or not to eat shellfish, but child sexual abuse and abject perpetual slavery is A-OK.
Hell, the whole friggin religion is born from incest, Abraham marrying his half sister Sarah and begetting inbred children to start the tribes of Israel is an immoral concept to begin with.
And ordering the Israelites to kill women and children and steal the little girls for themselves is beyond the pale of moral civilization.
You Christians must be so proud.
@miner49er
1. No he didn’t. You inferred it and its obvious you inferred it even from your reply now.
2. You challenged to show the word ‘treason’, you know that exact word was not in there. You created an argument trying to shift goal posts. I explained to you to point out your stupidity and it was blatantly obvious yet you still missed it but I guess even such a simple explanation was beyond your capability.
3. Once again, your keep trying to argue inane manufactured points thinking they are valid arguments so I ask again – are you like 12 years old?
This whole subject is so far beyond your intelligence skill level and its obvious.
Take your faked outrage somewhere else.
@Miner49er
“Dude is attempting a literal sleight-of-hand, conflating treason against our government with blasphemy against his God.”
No he wasn’t. It wasn’t conflating. It was a comparative analogy. Conflating is combining two or more texts, ideas, concepts etc. into a single idea or text into one. Compare is…
“com·pare
[kəmˈper]
VERB
* estimate, measure, or note the similarity or dissimilarity between:
* point out the resemblances to; liken to:
* draw an analogy between one thing and (another) for the purposes of explanation or clarification:
etc…”
What he wrote was obviously intended as a comparative analogy and not conflating. Its simple things like this you say that make me doubt your reading comprehension and English language usage skills as anything but beyond a 12 year old understanding.
“Wow, your casual blasphemy of the God you claim to worship is fascinating.”
Once again you demonstrate your ignorance on the subject. I was making a statement of fact pointing out YOUR ignorance in this subject. It is not “blasphemy” of God to say “Oh boo hoo… someone wrote some instructions thousands of years ago and now being long dead you want to make it an inane talking point“ > there are plenty of free dictionaries on the internet, I suggest you learn how to read and use them.
Now this tidbit of your ignorance of the Bible and the whole subject… I said ““someone wrote some instructions thousands of years ago“” to which you now reply “ ‘someone’ ? Do you mean the Lord God creator of the universe and his wacky ‘10 Commandments’? ”
You are clearly an idiot not to have understood the context of what I was writing, a context you clearly ignored in your confirmation bias and drive for yet another inane point.
The rest is just more of your stupid inane arguments to reinforce your faked outrage. No one is forcing you to have a belief in God, yet you rage against it as if you are jealous of not having a belief system and you rage against it in ignorance and can’t even discuss it intelligently and its always a ‘blame’ accusation game with you like a small child does. Did things happen thousands of years ago that are distasteful in today’s world? Yes they did, that’s a given and no one here ever denied that but you keep accusing as if they did and keep trying to change the goal post position in favor of your faked outrage. And intelligent people understand all this is past, but you act like this is something new to you and manufacture outrage over it, that you need to go back thousands of years to have something to argue about for something you don’t understand is not this world any longer and adult intelligent people understand its the past and not this world any longer – in other words your arguments are confirmation biased emotion and trolling inane points about the level of a child around 10-12 years old range.
Paragraph after paragraph of invective, all a smokescreen to hide the evil and immorality of the religion you choose to follow.
Frankly, I wouldn’t give a shit about yours or anybody else’s religion, but you Christians here in America, other religions across the world, continuously attempt to use your delusions to govern my life.
Really, I think the founding fathers thought they had put an end to that shit in 1789, but it keeps springing up eternally.
Perhaps you might want to reflect on the words of one of our most rational founding fathers, you may receive some enlightenment:
“It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man. That bloodthirsty man, called the prophet Samuel, makes God to say, (1 Sam. 15:3) ‘Now go and smite Amaleck, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.’”
Thomas Paine, ‘An Answer to a Friend’, Paris, May 12, 1797
@Miner49er
Oh I see, now its the evil Christians out to get you. Tell me, are they in line before or after the aliens coming to get you?
All this really goes over your head. Sometimes, rarely, you seem to almost grasp it but then your own evident self-loathing and contempt for the rest of the world, and insecurity, kicks your confirmation bias up a notch.
Miner,
You’re either extremely confused, you’re lying, or some combination of the two. I made an very concise, simple reply to your comment. Since you’re either confused or a liar, I then have to make multiple comments to explain my simple comment, as well as multiple comments to explain my simple explanations of my simple comment.
I’m going to (try to) make this abundantly clear for you one final time. Then I’m done with this thread and you.
Here was your original comment:
Here’s an example of ”Judeo-Christian values“ directly from their most sacred holy book:
Numbers 31:17-18 KJV
17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.”
Deuteronomy 13:6 – “If your brother, your mother’s son or your son or daughter, or the wife you cherish, or your friend who is as your own soul entice you secretly, saying, let us go and serve other gods … you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death”
Fascinating, but I think I’ll pass on those particular ‘values’.
Here was my original reply:
(Replying to the first verse): Tribal warfare. That’s how they prevented the opposing tribe from regrouping and coming back to attack them again in the future.
(Replying to the second verse): Regarding the other verse, what’s the ultimate penalty for treason in modern times?
Then you go on to play your whack-a-mole game and begin bringing up other verses. I told you I have no interest in playing your game. I replied to the above specific verses with context. You push back on my use of the word treason. I explained that I made a modern reference to help you understand the context of this time period thousands of years ago. It isn’t my fault if you either disagree with me or don’t understand what I’m saying. At no point have I ever lied about anything on TTAG. That’s your game.
Now you’re saying:
Miner said: Dude is attempting a literal sleight-of-hand, conflating treason against our government with blasphemy against his God.
God, faith, religion and other superstitions have no place or context with our Constitution or government, it is expressly forbidden by our purely secular constitution.
I’ve said in the past that you aren’t stupid. Please stop proving me wrong. Go back and reread the conversation because you are either extremely confused or desperately lying.
As for the tribal warfare comment, you have to learn the history of the time period to understand some of the context in the Bible. Yes, that’s how they conducted tribal warfare. The boys and young men grew up to be warriors who would attack again and keep the tribal conflict going for generations. The way to end it was to eliminate the threat and incorporate the girls into the tribe. Girls would often get married fairly soon after puberty just a few generations back. How do think it was thousands of years ago when the life expectancy was a fraction of what it is now?
If you still have trouble understanding this concept, here’s your homework assignment for the week. Watch the movie The Princess Bride. Ask yourself this question: Would Count Tyrone Rugen’s life be different if he had killed the young Inigo Montoya instead of just scarring him? Why or why not?
And now we get to the real point of this conversation.
Miner said: You Christians must be so proud.
You have zero interest in having a conversation. You have trouble understanding the conversation because you don’t want to understand. Your entire point is to put down Christians, as you do on a very regular basis. Yet, you brag about standing up for Muslims. Why is that? American partisan politics. You’re for and against whatever they’re for and against. When you’re finished standing on your moral high horse about slavery 3500 years ago, take a moment to look around at the present and open your eyes.
Thank you for your extensive reply.
And your attempt to dance around the actual conversation is mildly entertaining.
Regardless, the whole point of the conversation is discussing how appropriate it would be to incorporate Judeo Christian values into our society.
As I point out, with actual reference to the holy books, Judeo-Christian values include direct orders to kill women and children and enslave the girls children.
And this New Testament/Old Testament distraction does not stand the scrutiny of reason, if the old testament is out the window than everyone here is just fine with gay marriage, right?
And thankfully, it seems the authorities have captured another actual ‘Jehovah’s Witness’ committing in excess of 15 counts of child sexual abuse, bravo!
“Escobedo was already facing 15 charges ranging from annoying or molesting a child to possession of child pornography to rape.
But detectives believed there were still more victims from Escobedo’s time as a Jehovah’s Witness.
“Our investigation led us to believe there was additional information in the church documents in more or less their personnel files that they keep on parishioners,” said Lt. Brandon Pursell of the Fresno County Sheriff’s Office.
Action News recorded detectives seizing manila envelopes as they served a search warrant last month at Jehovah’s Witness churches in Kingsburg and Clovis.
Court documents state they found reports naming a previously unknown potential victim.
Investigators said an interview with the alleged victim, who is now a grown woman, corroborated a story from one of the earlier victims and provided evidence of an additional alleged crime.
Prosecutors filed five new felony charges afterwards and detectives arrested Escobedo.“
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oot1RripZTk
The real problem is not the fact that this man committed these crimes, the problem is the multiple parishioners and church leadership who knew about the crimes for decades but failed to act.
“(Replying to the first verse): Tribal warfare. That’s how they prevented the opposing tribe from regrouping and coming back to attack them again in the future”
So now you are suggesting that God commanded the Israelites to kill all the women and children, but save the little girl virgins for themselves because of ‘tribal warfare’?
That is ridiculous, Jehovah intentionally sent them to slay those people so they could steal their fucking land, the Israelites were the invaders.
Yes, they killed all the adults so they couldn’t object to the Israelites thievery, but they saved the girl children so they could rape them at their leisure.
And these were the words of your Lord God, most high and loving Creator, as recorded and His holy book bearing His inspired Word.
You folks aren’t going to weasel out of it, as if it was thousands of years ago and means nothing. Those very words were used to justify biblical slavery in the United States of America not even 200 years ago.
Even today, your Christian brethren are calling for the exile or murder of gay folks in America, all because of ‘something someone wrote thousands of years ago’…
@Miner49er
“Even today, your Christian brethren are calling for the exile or murder of gay folks in America, all because of ‘something someone wrote thousands of years ago’…”
Mistake 1: You assume everyone who is a Christian is automatically allied with those who claim to be Christian but do bad things. That’s your confirmation bias kicking in.
“You folks aren’t going to weasel out of it, as if it was thousands of years ago and means nothing.”
Mistake 2: No one in this discussion ever said, except for you, that thousands of years ago means nothing. In fact it was accepted and stated these things in the biblical days did happen. The only thing was that it was thousands of years ago, and like has been said the world has changed since then. You assume the discussion on this here is people trying to ‘weasel’ out of something and that makes them guilty of doing something from thousands of years ago in what was a complexity different time and world then, but no where in this discussion has anyone tried to do that and only you have stated this. Once again, that’s your confirmation bias kicking in.
“Yes, they killed all the adults so they couldn’t object to the Israelites thievery, but they saved the girl children so they could rape them at their leisure.”
Mistake 3: Well, once again your confirmation bias kicking in. He didn’t suggest any such thing. You are the only one in all of this that has ‘suggested’ and said such a thing, and you don’t even realize it. This is fourth time you have said he suggested something with the same statements that he did not suggest and each time its a different thing you imagine he is suggesting, all to further your inane and stupid argument of ignorance. Once again, your confirmation bias kicking in.
“Mistake 2: No one in this discussion ever said, except for you, that thousands of years ago means nothing“
Really?
“I was making a statement of fact pointing out YOUR ignorance in this subject. It is not “blasphemy” of God to say “Oh boo hoo… someone wrote some instructions thousands of years ago and now being long dead you want to make it an inane talking point“
“The only thing was that it was thousands of years ago, and like has been said the world has changed“
Fascinating.
Again, you are wrong, these very words written ‘thousands of years ago’ were used by every southern Baptist Church in the confederacy to justify biblical slavery against Black people less than 200 years ago.
Biblical chattel slavery was wrong in 1500 BC, it was wrong in 1776 and it was wrong in 1861.
And the fact that Jehovah directed his faithful followers to buy humans, beat them if they like as long as they didn’t die, sell their children into slavery and pass them down as property just shows the moral bankruptcy of everyone who worships these dark gods.
And dude trying to come up with some sort of ‘tribal warfare’ excuse to give the faithful a pass on slavery and child rape is really amazing.
It’s a shitty excuse for either verse I cited, Jehovah‘s direction for sexual slavery of little girls or Jehovah’s instructions for purchasing your slaves from the neighboring countries.
Again, a religion born from incest can’t really claim the moral high ground…
@Miner49er
Like I said, your confirmation bias kicking in. Thanks for verifying it with your latest.
40oz, in what respect is my post evidence of confirmation bias?
Have I misquoted the king James version of the holy Bible?
Am I incorrect in asserting that instructing someone to effectuate the crime of human chattel slavery is immoral?
Please tell me, if your God instructs you to do something you consider immoral, would you still do it?
To the very foundation, was Abraham right to commence the murder of his son because God told him to?
No need for multi paragraph screeds, a simple yes or no.
@Miner49er
Like I said, your confirmation bias kicking in. Thanks for verifying it with your latest. People with confirmation bias are unable to recognize it and see it in their writings, its obvious in your posts yet you don’t see it. Its a viscous circle and obviously you are in that circle going round and round seeking something else to confirm your self-satisfying preconceived bias.
“And your attempt to dance around the actual conversation is mildly entertaining.”
I danced around nothing. I replied to a comment of yours that had two Bible verses. That doesn’t mean I’m obligated to spend all day talking about more Bible verses with you. Grow up.
“And dude trying to come up with some sort of ‘tribal warfare’ excuse to give the faithful a pass on slavery and child rape is really amazing.”
Where did I give anyone a pass on slavery or child rape? Where did you cite child rape?
“saved the girl children so they could rape them at their leisure”
Where is this in scripture? Did you come up with that on your own? You realize the scripture you quoted is talking about taking them as wives, correct? The Bible spoke against rape and mentioned that it was illegal.
“some sort of ‘tribal warfare’ excuse”
Did you watch the movie? Do you still not understand the concept of ongoing tribal warfare and the benefits of ending it, even if it’s with a preemptive strike? It could be a matter of survival. Have the Shias and Sunnis worked things out yet? How long has that been going on?
“Regardless, the whole point of the conversation is discussing how appropriate it would be to incorporate Judeo Christian values into our society.”
Show me the Christian churches that are telling their members to kill anyone or have sex slaves. Is that what you think? Is that why we’re having this conversation? Because you think Christians want to kill kids or make them into sex slaves? Do you honestly believe that’s what Christians want to do? Honestly? The same Christians who fight against abortion and sexually indoctrinating children? Those Christians? Do you ever listen to yourself?
2A VICTORY TODAY: Federal Court Decision on MAGAZINE BAN > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0uiHmcf_kw
Looking at our country’s major cities deteriorating into rack and ruin, I can’t help but think of a 41 year old scifi apocalyptic movie that was released in 1981. In the movie’s dystopian future, Manhatten Island has been turned into a Maximum Security Federal Prison. No one sentenced to the “facility” ever left. Guards did not patrol to keep the inmates from hurting one another, they only patrolled the walls to keep the miscreants in.
At the time Escape From New York came out, I thought the whole premise of the plot silly. Looking at what our major cities are slowly descending to, I can’t help but draw comparisons to that and other movies. It sure appears as if the Elected Elitists are losing control of the playgrounds they’ve ruled for so long. I question whether a change in leadership will have much effect on some of these cities. The Criminal elements have held sway for much too long, and attempts to crack down are met with a lot of resistance from Progressives.
When a society has more concern for the rights of criminals than the rights of victims, things are really f**cked up.
An old LEO friend once told me that the best answer is to put them all in a fenced enclosure, and throw in some knives, and wait. Then go back and shoot the survivors because they’re the really mean bastards. Shocking as that sounds, can’t help but wonder if he might been right.
All I know is I’m glad I don’t live anywhere near any of these Sh*tholes.
OK , LET’S ALL MOVE TO RUSSA , CHINA OR BETTER YET NORTH KOREA …
NOTHING DO WITH RED OR BLUE STATES , JUST FRGN HUMANS , PERIOD
GUESS NUKE IT ALL , WHY WAIT IN LET CLIMATE CRISIS DESTORY IT ALL .
MOTHER EARTH DOES NOT NEED HUMANS TO SURVIVE
SAVE LAST BULLET FOR YOURSELF IF OWN A GUN
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