My recent story about what happened after a driver side-swiped my car elicited all manner of comments here at TTAG. A few of them were highly critical of how I handled the situation. While criticism sometimes stings, if we don’t learn from it, those lessons will never translate into wisdom and as such, opportunities are lost for better handling future situations.
Even better, each and every one of our TTAG visitors can learn a lot from both the stories and from comments offered by some of our sharp readers. Indeed, some comments really are priceless.
For those who missed the original story (here), a speeding driver failed to stay in his lane and struck my car as I took my just-turned three-year-olds to daycare early on the morning of January 5th. The other driver failed to pull over for about a half-dozen blocks.
Then, when he did pull over, he looked intoxicated when he stepped out. The then started yelling and posturing as if he wanted to fight.
Some of our readers took me to task for how (poorly) the situation was handled.
.40 cal Booger had this to say:
Ok, let me see if I got this: Your kids are in the car, you get sideswiped and the other driver keeps going, you follow him then pull over behind him and stop. Then you during all this start communicating with the guy ordering him (telling him ‘to get the F back’) to get back knowing that he appears intoxicated yet with the kids in the car you are in a position where you starting to think about needing a weapon. But you sit there and continue to communicate with a drunk angry aggressive guy who may or may not be armed, who has already shown a disregard for your life and safety and that of your kids by sideswiping you and driving off. But you, instead of driving away and telling the 911 dispatcher you do not feel safe there with your kids in the car – you continue to aggravate the guy by continuing to order him around. But for some reason now you think its great because you have a dash cam.
That about right? Ok then, I have only one question. Are you stupid?
And not long after, he added this:
You had the guys license plate number, neither of you are at the actual accident scene, there no reason to follow him to begin with. He’s drunk and angry and aggressive and out of his car and has approached yours, you don’t know if he is armed with a firearm or not, you have your kids in the car. What would have happened to your kids if he was armed and managed to put you down? During an exchange of weapons fire would your kids have been hit?
Just because you can carry a gun or have a dash cam does not mean you are Superman, it does not mean you should stay around to see what happens, juts because you can be there in public does not mean you should place yourself or others in such a situation where the threat level is simmering but you are unsure, it does not mean you need to stay around and start thinking about options for defense in place and purposely ignore your best and safest defense in this situation to simply drive away and keep away far enough so the guy could no longer see you or you see him at least.
And to top it all off you did all this with your kids in the car, WTF is wrong with you?
You should have left.
stupid stupid stupid.
Mr. Booger: I’ll be honest, at first I didn’t think I handled the incident that poorly. Reading your comment the first time irritated me, but it made me think. Pretty soon, I realized you’re absolutely right. Just because I thought I had a handle on the situation doesn’t mean it couldn’t have gone sideways. I ignored all the warning signs and stuck around.
- The guy didn’t slow and stop promptly after the collision. (Red flag #1.)
- The guy didn’t emerge from his vehicle right away. (Red flag #2… whatcha doin’ in there, buddy? Fishing around for your paperwork… or maybe looking for your gun?)
- The guy appeared quite intoxicated when he did step out. (Giant red flag #3.)
- The guy started yelling and acting like he wanted to fight. (A whole row of red flags waving in the wind.)
- The guy approached my car, showing lots of posturing and other pre-violence indicators (A red flag on a 2×4 to my face that I failed to acknowledge.)
And the fact I had not one, but two toddlers in the car with me? What the hell was I thinking?
That’s the problem. I wasn’t thinking. As events unfolded, I completely ignored the warning signs. And these weren’t the “intuition” warning signs from the subconscious mind. These were right out there with flashing lights. Yet I failed to see them.
Epic fail on my part. Things ended fairly safely, but it could have been an entirely different outcome in the blink of an eye.
Dear Mr. Booger: I don’t know who you are or where you’re from, but if you ever see me in person and have an opportunity, come introduce yourself. I owe you a beer or two for pointing out very valid points and huge mistakes that I made.
The another reader “John” wrote this:
I agree Booger.
This story exemplified some of the major complaints that anti-gun people have about gun owners. The first few are the very obvious lack of responsibility and lack of using the very obvious correct actions to avoid any possible confrontation.
Mr. Boch seemed to have been trying to create a situation in which he would have had to employ defense of some type. All he had to do was drive away. Instead he stays around and continues to aggravate the situation by giving the already aggressive and “pre-violence warning signs displaying” person someone upon which to focus the anger and potential violence including upon the kids.
Mr. Boch was stupid stupid stupid. He not only failed in the most basic of responsibilities for a gun carrier to avoid situations such as this, he intentionally endangered not only his children but himself by creating and staying in a “pre-violence warning signs” dangerous situation which by Mr. Boch’s own words was concerning enough to consider the possibility of deadly force use. Mr. Boch failed in the most basic responsibility of a parent and that is to keep our children away from danger potential or otherwise.
What these dash cam pictures captured was Mr. Boch’s own stupidity and lack of responsibility. They show, by the proximity of the “pre-violence warning signs” drunk and coupled with Mr. Boch’s own words, the dash cam captures show him endangering his own children and him self by creating the situation by being there and exposing them to a “pre-violence warning signs” dangerous situation that was enough for Mr. Boch to consider the use of deadly force.
This is not a matter of making a mistake for which in hindsight we can say “maybe I should have done it differently.” If this drunk had been armed there may not have been any later for hind sight for Mr. Boch or his kids.
When it comes to our kids, when it comes to gun carry, we do not get to make a wrong decision the first time if the situation is such that our thoughts are about employing deadly force – there is no ‘mistake’ or hindsight luxury for us in such a situation, there is only the correct decision to make the first time and in this case that was to drive away and not engage.
“Drive away and not engage.” Priceless advice that should be front and center in everyone’s mind, especially me or anyone with tiny little kids with us. Or even without little kids with us, especially as society (and civilized behavior) seems to be getting more dangerous by the day.
Same for you, John. Come introduce yourself. I owe you a drink to say thanks.
Indeed, I not only created the situation by following the other driver, but also by remaining there as I waited for the cops. I should have driven away. Absolutely, positively correct.
The story itself provides lessons…mostly in what NOT to do. But the comments offered up by our readers, particularly John and .40 cal Booger, were priceless. I thank them for taking a few minutes to offer some great analysis and criticism of how to do better in any future similar incidents for TTAG’s readers.
You ever notice how cars that look like they came from a demolition derby never get in an accident.
Good on you mr. Boch for having the humility to receive correction instead of getting defensive about it. 👍
Yep. Probably the easiest thing to do, is make sure you have the guy’s license # on your 8k camera and then let him go. Then call the cops, provide them the footage, file a report, and they take all the risk from there. Guaranteed they would track down the license # and have chat.
Course it’s easy for me to say now, armchair quarterbacking. If you a pissed off because someone hit your car and tried to run away, in the heat of the moment anyone might do something different (like pursue them). So I really don’t blame him for that. I might have done the same thing. But it’s not the best course of action.
I came to say the same thing that Art out West stated.
Kudos to you Mr. Boch for embracing a learning opportunity AND sharing with this website’s readers for our education as well.
Doesn’t the fact that they look like they’ve been in a demolition derby attest to the fact that they have been in one or more accidents?
For sure that’s why you give them two lanes of clearance.
1 They cant drive
2 They dont care
Absolutely. If the car looks like it was stolen from a junkyard with damage port and starboard, fore and aft, to me that shouts “impaired driver”. Give him/her (I’ve seen grandmas with that kind of damage) lots of room. Watch for telltale signs, can’t stay in lane, driving very slowly, driving way too fast for traffic. If you can see the license plate number, make a note of it and call 911. Report make and model of the car if you know it and the license plate number. Even if you don’t have the plate number, and as pointed out by the article, don’t make a noticeable effort to get it, just call 911 with the make and model of the car or a physical description of the car. If it sounds like the driver is impaired from your description of the driving, they will put out a BOLO alert and make a stop. WE are not WROL yet and so vigilantism is not called for. Heck, the cops probably know who it is from the description. Lots of drunks are well known to the cops unless it is a mega city and even then, they may have seen the driver in the booking area a time or two.
When I worked in court occasionally I would see faces I recognized from criminal calendar in areas where I knew they didn’t have any friends they had been visiting. I always wondered why they were in that neighborhood. If I were a cop, I would have pulled over and had a chat with them. But I wasn’t and so continued on my way.
They certainly do. A WI State Trooper told me something I’ll never forget – “Defective people drive defective cars.” I wouldn’t want one of those drivers behind me, so I’m happy to get them off of the road. Unfortunately we have a lot of defective people in the US, who vote for defective politicians, who love defective people because they will reliably pull that blue lever every election no matter how much the US starts looking like a 3rd World Nation. I’m looking forward to retirement.
The sting truly hurts but you did the right thing by asking yourself how to do better by calling yourself out, listening to advice (regardless of Le sting) and sharing it with others without posturing. You’re a good man Charlie Brown.
I would add only to the commenters (whom I’m assuming are ttag supporters) if their goal was to change your mind, to have done it with more decorum. Knowing that 90% of people when feeling like they are attacked will shut down and defend to the end, outrage commenting seems to be less useful for real change.
“90% of people when feeling like they are attacked will shut down and defend to the end”
well most of those, even when approached civilly, don’t seem to listen anyway.
Good form on your part for admitting this, Boch. I didn’t add my own comments to your original article, but I also believe you would have best protected your children by following at a distance for a short time (to allow your dash cam to definitively capture the other vehicle’s LPN), then called the police and offered your video evidence to them and/or your insurance carrier.
To clarify and add:
Follow for a short distance, then disengage and drive away to later pull over, call the police, and offer the video.
As I commented I had a hit n run incident a few years ago and pondered chasing the lowlife you hit me. Never do I condemn ye. Go and sin no more Boch…
I think this only proves my point that I have made many times. Often when one carries a gun he ends up in far more danger than if he had not. I once asked a friend of mine why he did not carry a weapon since he owned a pistol. He said “With my temper I would end up using it because its way to easy to lose your temper and in a fraction of a second and either get yourself killed or end up going to jail for the rest of your life as well as being sued and losing all of your life’s assets”.
Most studies prove that people who caused a confrontation because of the heat of the moment or if they were being robbed resisted all ended up either dead or in far more legal trouble than if they had not been carrying a gun. All this is unfathomable to the far right who’s aggression, brutality and paranoia trump common sense.
If Bernard Goetz had to do it all over again (the subway vigilante) I am sure he would have just gave the punk kids his money instead of gunning them all down and entering a legal and financial nightmare that has never really ended for him.
“Most studies prove that people who caused a confrontation because of the heat of the moment or if they were being robbed resisted all ended up either dead or in far more legal trouble than if they had not been carrying a gun. ”
Why do you insist on repeating the lies? They are lies. Actual studies say that Americans avoid being victimized more than a million times each year, because they have a weapon at hand.
I have given links from studies that prove that is entirely false.
Well, I have given links from studies that prove what you are saying is entirely false.
I see no link above, dink. Perhaps you could provide those links that are missing? But, just because you can provide a link to the lies doesn’t make them true. Figures don’t lie, but liars figure.
Guns are not used millions of times a year to defend oneself.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
According to lil’d, my son didn’t need to use an AR-10 to protect himself from armed intruders (in his apartment) before he was 21 (the legal age to purchase a handgun). Lil’d is a pathetic POS!
Hey lil’d, GFY!🖕🤡
Three gigantic red flags in the summaries of those Harvard studies:
1.
They avoid providing numbers that could be checked. If they used solid methodology to prove that the existing, widely quoted numbers are overestimated, they’d have solid numbers to attach to it — whether a corrected number of defensive gun uses or an estimate of the rate of “false positives.” Yet among their 11 studies, only two report any verifiable data in the summary. And as you’ll see in a moment, even those are easily proven false.
2.
In multiple published studies, they assume that a defensive gun use *must* result in a gunshot wound — an erroneous assumption at best and an attempt to lie by omission at worst.
3.
The only numbers provided are purposefully misleading.
First number usage: Among “detainees” in a Washington DC jail, “one in four…had been wounded… Virtually none report being wounded by a ‘law-abiding citizen’.”
So criminals are likely to get shot by other criminals? No shit, Sherlock!
Also, see point #2 above for erroneous assumptions about armed self-defense. Lack of shootings doesn’t necessarily mean lack of deterrence.
But get this: in 2000, when the study was published, Washington DC had the most restrictive anti-gun laws in the nation. Before the Supreme Court’s decision in DC vs. Heller in 2008, residents weren’t allowed to own pistols at all, and were required to keep *all* firearms disassembled and locked away. No wonder virtually none of those prisoners had encountered an armed, law-abiding citizen!
Second number usage: “Victims use guns in less than 1% of contact crimes, and women never use guns to protect themselves against sexual assault (in more than 300 cases).”
“Victims use guns in less than 1% of contact crimes…”
What the heck is a “contact crime”? Hint: Most of them are rapes. How many are there? The 2018 Uniform Crime Report estimates that 127,258 rapes were reported to police in that year. This number includes attempted rape, so it may be fair to do some calculations with it.
If 1% of intended victims produced a gun in self-defense, that’s 12,725 in one year. What’s the success rate? Most of them? Half? Only 1 percent? If it’s only 1 percent (a ridiculously low number, but let’s roll with it), that’s 1,272 rapes prevented. In one year.
Anti-gun types are fond of saying “if it saves just one life, it’s worth it.” Well, Harvard’s own ostensibly anti-gun study gives us 1,272 lives. Maybe armed self-defense is worthwhile after all.
“…women never use guns to protect themselves against sexual assault (in more than 300 cases).”
Note that this applies only to the 300 cases they looked at — a perfect example of cherrypicking. And from this they get “women never use guns”? That’s not only weak, it’s stupid.
It took me less than 30 seconds to search this one up: “Woman Shoots Would-Be Rapist,” reported by WIS-10 News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5o0CyqZ2D-g
So much for Harvard’s “never.” And that’s a great place to conclude.
Guns are not used millions of times a year to defend oneself.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-threats-and-self-defense-gun-use-2/
That’s the harvard firearm’s research center. Anti-gun politicians hand them cash to come up with “research.” Your source – David Hemingway, is a regular at “thetrace” – an anti-gun website. Further, David hemingway said this on a podcast:
“Instead of it being the mark of a real man that you can shoot somebody at 50 feet and kill them with a gun, the mark of a real man is that you would never do anything like that. . . . The gun is a great equalizer because it makes wimps as dangerous as people who really have skill and bravery and so I’d like to have this notion that anyone using a gun is a wuss. They aren’t anybody to be looked up to. They’re somebody to look down at because they couldn’t defend themselves or couldn’t protect others without using a gun.” – David Hemingway
Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Center…
Seriously? If someone called me up and said, “Did you use a gun in a self defense situation.” And suppose I did, but I don’t have a police report to go along with it. The answer will of course be no!
Here is a real link for you to click on:
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/unpublished-cdc-study-confirms-2-million-defensive-handgun-uses-annually/
@dacian
“…Using data from a national random-digit-dial telephone survey conducted under the direction of the Harvard Injury Control Center…..”
Seriously?
“…To believe fully the claims of millions of self-defense gun uses each year would mean believing that decent law-abiding citizens shot hundreds of thousands of criminals….”
Just stop ok. The minute I saw your link as associated with Harvard I knew what I was going to see. Nothing more than a money raising hit piece to keep grant coming in.
Just because your friend is willing to murder because someone slights him, doesn’t mean the rest of us shouldn’t carry. One should only use a gun to stop a deadly threat. At least your friend understands his limitations.
dacian, nothing ever proves your point. You need to get used to that.
“dacian, nothing ever proves your point”
he’s not trying to prove a point. he’s trying to steer perceptions.
You know he might have done exactly the same things if he didn’t have a gun, and the other guy might have had one, or might have dragged him out of the car and beat the crap out of him.
To what extent does driving directions their wrecked appearance indicate that they have not been in at least one accident?
lil d – You have NEVER made a point. Go away.
Well Dacian, are you projecting again? It seems to me that part of growing up should be increasing self-control over time. If a fellow has such a bad temper that he doesn’t trust himself to carry a weapon, well, good on him for acknowledging his weakness, but he ought to take the next step and fix it. Stop picking fights all the time, get some help, and get some training. Having a berserker mentality is a weakness that adversaries will exploit.
For sure dacian.
I agree with you, firegunms should only be used for taking up space in the Federally approved gunm safe.
I never take my gunms to the gunm range because someone there or myself might snap and just start blasting.
I’ve been vetted, but I still dont trust myself with a gunm.
Wait till you’ve been forded. Not something one is likely to forget…
I’ve no medical, I cant aFord to get run over.
Makes me wonder if they put “Dodge” on the grills of those Ram trucks just to minimize roadkill.
The usual leftist argument. Disarm everyone, because they might get mad. Render them helpless #savelivesatanycost
Harmlessness is not virtuous:
https://youtu.be/QQ5oqgJWJyw?t=64
Perhaps fewer ad hominen attacks. Calling John Boch stupid is unnecessary, regardless if his actions were stupid. Just say what he did was stupid. Calling people names is something we detest from our resident trolls.
In my military service, we did a lot of AARs (After Action Reviews). At the beginning, we always prefaced the AARs with “No thin skins, but don’t make it personal”. The purpose of an AAR is to reinforce good actions and to correct bad ones for future operations. It is not to belittle someone that made mistakes.
We do something very similar in healthcare after codes and incidents. The focus is on why did this happen, what can we do so it doesn’t happen again, and does anyone involved need more training.
One thing that gets missed in all of the commentary is the rush of adrenaline that occurs in a situation like this. I got rear-ended (pretty decent collision) a while ago and it took a bit before the logical part of the brain took back over. Don’t be too hard on yourself. Valid criticism of the “what did you do?!” can coexist with the realities of situations like that.
I don’t know what kind of training you’ve had Mr Boch but me thinks you need some. I recently went through a course on situational awareness, deescalation, etc. They spent alot of time on recognizing even the most subtle signs of aggression. You, sir, violated pretty much every rule and principle they taught us. Until you get your head screwed on straight maybe you should leave your kids home when you go out.
Boch is a firearms trainer. Just here to troll???
So being a firearms instructor gives him a pass on stupid? He put his children in potentially immediate danger. If you’re ok with that because he’s a firearms instructor you’re as much an idiot as he is. What would you be saying if the children in his car were yours honey? Yeah, I thought so.
Johna: I think that YOU are the one out of line. Mr. Boch didn’t ask for a “pass on stupid.” Just the opposite. And… where are your manners with the pejoratives.
Some people just love being condescending a$$holes.
I applaud Mr Boch for being a good example to his boys. His first instinct was to not behave in a soyboy, liberal, de escalating cowardly manner. He also did not get out of his car and behave as a raving lunatic. You have boys Johna? What are their preferred pronouns?
“I don’t know what kind of training you’ve had Mr Boch but me thinks you need some. I recently went through a course on situational awareness, deescalation, etc. They spent alot of time on recognizing even the most subtle signs of aggression. You, sir, violated pretty much every rule and principle they taught us. Until you get your head screwed on straight maybe you should leave your kids home when you go out.”
^^^ WTF is this??? 😂😂😂😂
It’s a total shamefest up in here! Let’s all circle around and start jerking it because Boch made a mistake! 😂😂😂😂😂
Following the guy until he stopped was a reasonable action. At that point, you had no reason to believe he would be aggressive rather than simply wanting to avoid responsibility for the accident. It’s the same as encountering someone who looks like a gangbanger. You aren’t entitled to assume the worst without definite hostile action on his part. When the other driver got out of his vehicle and displayed hostility, you did the right thing which was to back away from him. My only criticism is that you should have done so at the first sign of aggression rather than engage him with verbal commands. You and your children were unnecessarily vulnerable during the time you spent shouting instead of backing.
REALLY? You claim not to form an opinion/make a judgement about someone based on their appearance? Then you’re an idiot, you lie, or you’re bucking for job as Christ.
Neck tattoos, riding harley wearing a gang moron jacket/colors (as Hells Twits), with man bun, dressing/acting like stereo type of a queer, looks like a ghetto gangbanger or BLM or Antif, or a tactical operator wannabe. I call BS.
Appearance is not, by itself, sufficient grounds to justify initiating defensive force against someone. It takes some kind of overt, hostile action on his part. Absent that, you are required to give him the benefit of the doubt. If you tell the cops, “I drew my gun because he looked like a gangbanger and I was afraid he might mug me,” you can expect to be charged with aggravated assault. On the other hand, if you say, “He put his hand into his pocket and threatened to shoot me if I didn’t give him my wallet,” you would have been justified. (You still are likely to need other evidence, such as a gun in his pocket, so it’s not just your word against his.)
I’m sorry, but a guy with three tear drops by the corner of his eye with a known gang logo on his forehead and the rest of his face covered with prison tats plus all the uncovered skin I can see definitely puts me on guard. This is especially true if he is bulked up like he is on roids, and wearing typical gang attire. There is a book out written Gavin De Becker, owner of a security company that talks about paying attention to your sixth sense. I suggest that you read it. If you Search Gavin De Becker on Amazon, you will see it listed. It’s a good read and touches on paying attention to warning signs.
Congratulations Mr. Boch for having the intestinal fortitude to own up to mistakes and for sharing your thoughts for improvements. I’ll buy you a cup of coffee, if ever given the opportunity.
Sir,
Your humility is admired and appreciated.
Your article finally convinced me to try out a dashcam (or two). Should be delivered Tuesday. Hopefully all my video is trivial, boring or mundane compared to yours.
Yes! I think it’s a good decision.
Good news is the vast majority of this forum did not hesitate to take the Brother Bosh to task.
It also proves dacian AKA darcydodo At 10:35 fails each and every time it trips over itself to use the minority to broad brush the majority. If dodo really was not fixated on his disdain for your 2A Right dodo would have included the moving vehicle that initially caused the incident and said, “Owning a motor vehicle makes you less safe.”
The followup from John Boch confirms…”That which doesn’t kill us, makes us stronger.”
At least in Iowa. If you leave the scene before a cop arrives to fill out a report, then your SOL in getting/doing one later.
Well its always a good thing to take constructive criticism and admit when you are wrong. I think the criticism was warranted and could have done without the stupid comments but if it made you think and rethink about how you acted with the children in the car that is a good thing, and it is big of you to admit it and not make excuses. We can all learn from out mistakes if we don’t get defensive about them. We are all human and at times we fail in our judgements.
All I see is 2 morons.
“Even better, each and every one of our TTAG visitors can learn a lot from both the stories and from comments offered by some of our sharp readers.”
TTAG as a gun blog is OK on the articles, but for me, the real *gold* is the interplay in the comment section.
Over the years, I’ve learned lots from the comment section, and it’s what keeps me coming back for more… 🙂
+1
Yeah, same here. Could do without lil d and his constant long winded rants, and the people who feed the troll, though.
it has become a low effort proposition to skim past jeffropedo nonsense.
Well, we haven’t learned anything from your barely coherent posts and would prefer you concentrate on other sites. Thank you,
Is the retarded troll cranky?
Good! 😉
Boch conducted his own after action review, listed his mistakes and what he will do differently if a similar incident happens in the future. He even thanked his critics for their (rude, obnoxious) comments and offered to reward them with an adult beverage. And y’all are calling HIM stupid? He sounds like the smartest (most courteous, respectful, etc.) contributor here. Not including dacian, of course, who is a giant among men. If you doubt that, just ask him. He will enlighten you.
Plus one.
Well said, prof.
Agreed
“And y’all are calling HIM stupid?”
I’m damn sure not.
Now, he would have been stupid if he didn’t have a revelation on what he *should* have done, but he did, and kudos on him for that…
👍
Mr. Boch – well done. I salute you, sir.
It would be so refreshing if several of the commenters on this site didn’t resort to name calling, disrespect, insults, etc. Learning and exchanging ideas is so much more productive (and pleasant) when mutual respect is the rule — not the exception.
Thanks, sir.
yeah, but they keep dragging glocks into it.
“ That’s the problem. I wasn’t thinking. As events unfolded, I completely ignored the warning signs.”
That’s why people are for gun control. Doesn’t matter if you really are a good guy with a gun. Doesn’t matter if you’ve had training. You still made several mistakes AND let emotion get the better of you. Add a gun to the mix and it’s another sad story.
That’s not to say you shouldn’t exercise your 2nd Amendment rights, but the whole macho pro-gun attitude IS the problem.
A gun should instill fear, not courage, make your blood run cold, not hot, make you grimace, not smile.
TL:DR very unpopular opinion
“Add a gun to the mix and it’s another sad story.”
I must have missed the sad part.
Exactly Ralph. There WAS a gun in the mix and there was NO “sad story” (e.g. no brandishing, no aggravated assault, no attempted murder, no murder).
God forbid we have the “great tragedy” of a lawful gun owner removing a violent felon a$$hole who attacked his family from the gene pool.
First of all, everything he did was legal. He did nothing illegal. He can follow the guy and cuss him out if he wants. I’m totally fine with all that. All legal. All good. We are discussing what is the best course of action here.
Gun control is for tyrant commies. P.S. You can’t take emotion out of human beings. But you can disarm them, and have them beaten to death by criminals.
You mean the whole pro-“dash cam hot car pursuit” attitude is the problem. No guns were employed at all in this scenario. Period.
When you have others to think about, significant others at home, kids, pets or any who depend on you, indulging ones self necessitates that sensibilities take precedence over self-indulgence.
The original article John posted, and the way he handled the comments, are just two reasons why I have tons of respect for John Boch.
Agree.
Yep. Still it’s feasting time for trolls here to eat it up and shit all over the place.
Missed an opportunity for a real Karen moment.
It seem gunms are attributing to the demasculation of the American male.
I carry a hammer in the truck toolbox. It don’t effect how I act. I use it to solve specific problems.
As a gun owner, I will go the extra mile not to be confrontational polite, courteous, pleasant always trying to defuse any confrontation and walk away. If I pull out my gun because you are endangering my life or a loved one. It will be to shoot you period.
I thought the name-calling was uncalled for. And again I ask ‘how would any one react if someone hit you and ran? Not as if it happens everyday. There should be a certain amount of ‘Justice seeking’ in all of us. Sure, it’s property, but damn people should not get away with crap like this.
As I stated, follow, gather intel, don’t get too close. Me? I’ll let them run, run all the way to their house/residence and then a Hit and Run charge should stick. Plus I’ll know everything about them I can find including all family members and acquaintances. Arrested instead of a ticket? Guess who who will be at the Bond Hearing declaring Mr. Hit and Run a true danger to the community? I’ll do my best to get any Bond request denied and they can sit in jail until trial.
Thanks for this…..you rose a peg in my eyes.
Also highlights the ease in dissecting an incident in your recliner vs being a participant in the incident.
Detached reflection is a rare thing in the breech.
Glad it ended well.
One thing I’ve learned is that people are stupid and or crazy when cars are involved.
Most people who get arrested are less upset than people receiving a parking ticket. And people will risk thousands of dollars of damage to their car (and unknown injuries) to play chicken if they perceive that someone is getting one over on them in traffic.
Lol 40 cal retard is the last person next to Haz(ardous) that I would ever take advice from. Of course it’s Boch, while I am no fan of the guy. He did do the right thing. He was in a position to intervene and did so. All you Karen’s would be complaining if the drive who hit Boch continued on and killed someone. Can hear it know; “He already hit your car, why didn’t you do anything!”.
I remember when it was seen as a bad thing to have camera everywhere. Orwell was wrong. It all depends on how you use the footage. But Orwell was right in that we have lost our privacy.
A person having a camera that they control for their own purposes in their vehicle is not “Orwellian.” Orwellian was the government have camera’s everywhere watching your every move and your every statement spoken.
In todays insurance world you need to have a camera. Everywhere you go. And that is a sad fact.
I’m glad things worked out in your favor Mr. B.
we all have those moments where we do something really dumb- the key is to learn from it. just this weekend… Son and I went to a movie- I was armed (as always). It was about 33 degrees and we were rushing to get in from the parking lot. We started to cross to the theater entrance and a truck was coming down the little road in front. He was about 200’ away and slowed down. He was going about 5mph. I waited for probably 5 seconds and he’d only come about 50’. I motioned for him to come on- he continued on at the same 5mph. “Ridiculous!” I thought as a gust of cold air hit me in the face… Without thinking, I said “Why don’t you take your time, buddy”, loud enough to be heard. From the truck I hear, “Sorry, go ahead.” and the truck stopped. The guy had his window down for some reason in near-freezing temps(who does that!?) We crossed and went inside without further event- but the wheels of “what if?” got turning in terms of all the ways that situation could have gone sideways. What if he had replied yelling or gunned his engine? gotten out? What if he threatened my son or myself? So- Was the driver a d*****s for crawling? Yes. But I was the bigger d*****s for having a hair trigger and juvenile outburst- especially while armed. I knew better. I was taught better. I was raised better. But in that moment, I failed. I have to learn from that moment, though. Otherwise, I’m not much better than the guy you encountered.
Oh yeah, sure, let’s just all continue to allow ourselves to be victimized. Some of you “men” on here make me want to puke. The reason why we have drag queen story hour, the reason why we have BLM riots, the reason why antifa takes over a few city blocks is because of cowards like a few on here. Grow some testicles. My guess is the ones criticizing Mr. Boch are Baby Boomers or liberal Christians. Pathetic.
In all situations your response should be an attitude of RISK MANAGEMENT. As long as you can put distance between yourself, those for whom you are responsible for their safety (little kids!), then putting that distance between you all and danger is paramount.
I’ve carried a firearm most of my adult life, which is a long time now. That has always been my outlook. Confrontation is what the bad guy is doing, the idiot, the criminal. Not getting hurt is what my problem is and I will ALWAY?S err on the side of NOT GETTING HURT!
The first rule of which is to put distance between the idiot, the drunk, the adult tossing a tantrum, the criminal, etc, and me and mine.
Kudos to the author for taking this advice. Seriously, guys, leave the attitudes at the door. Each one of those criticisms could have been presented without the name-calling. We’re not in kindergarten anymore. I swear this community is so salty, it’s really why I left.
Unfortunately we had a similar situation near where I live in FL but without a happy ending. A motorcyclist was hit by a car. The driver did not stop. Motorcyclist and a witness followed her home. She came out of the house with a gun and was shot dead by motorcyclist.
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