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Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: Cops Can’t or Won’t Use Guns Effectively So Let’s Keep Teachers Disarmed, Too

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License-to-carry permits in Pennsylvania reveal absolutely nothing about the ability of any of their 1.5 million holders to handle firearms. Incredibly, Pennsylvania requires no training for a concealed carry permit.

Nor do classroom, range or simulated tactical training adequately prepare people to make split-second, life-or-death decisions, or handle shooters who shoot back. Even law enforcement officers don’t always handle active shooters appropriately, as the tragic mass murder in Uvalde, Texas, showed. Nineteen elementary school students and two teachers were killed on May 24 while local law enforcement failed to respond swiftly.

If some cops don’t get it right, why should the public expect English teachers and counselors to?

Politicians and school administrators have debated the value of arming teachers and school staff for two decades. The idea has recently gained traction following a series of deadly mass shootings in schools.

More than half of the nation’s states now permit school employees to carry firearms on school grounds. Last month, neighboring Ohio enacted a law that would enable school staff to carry a gun into school, with just 24 hours of training.

But guns and classrooms don’t mix: Weapons can discharge accidentally. They can get into the hands of curious or suicidal children or potential killers. In the chaos and turmoil of a gunfight, school staff could injure or kill children or other school employees.

— Post-Gazette Editorial Board in Reading, Writing and Guns for Teachers 

126 thoughts on “Pittsburgh Post-Gazette: Cops Can’t or Won’t Use Guns Effectively So Let’s Keep Teachers Disarmed, Too”

  1. Teacher do not need to be armed.

    They need to stop being disarmed. Gun free zones need to go away.

    • As I said before…The unarmed, unprepared, happy go lucky school failed miserbly to provide an once of defense for its students. The school was unprepared and being unprepared catered to the perp and made sitting ducks out of children.

      Well the truth hurts and the truth about the accident waiting to happen school in Uvalde recently surfaced on the evening news when the school principal and staff were under investigation for security incompetence.

      The opinion of the birdcage pittsburg post is limited to maybe 3 pompous gutless wonders who best not be in charge of any school security. For if they were in charge of your child’s security…Your child would be a sitting duck just like the children in Uvalde were sitting ducks.

      Now mr. and miss Jim Crow Gun Control zealots falling for pittsburg post manure…If you do not want firearms that is your business. When it comes to you thinking you can tell others what they can possess to defend themselves and their loved ones can you can and will gfy.

      • Whats almost as bad is the fact that all this incompetence is being swept under the rug and virtually nothing will be done to make anyone accountable or improve things. They will build a new school building and put the same incompetents in place to mismanage it.

        • I’m equally shocked at the willingness of people to curl up and die rather than fight. “But in a gunfight, people could get injured.” (Paraprasing) If you find yourself in a gunfight, wouldn’t you like a gun? Nauseating.

    • Things get changed in this country by using words that cover the true meaning of what they represent. Thus, Abortion became “Choice” to hide its true horror. It’s about time that we wake up and start doing the same thing. Only instead of hiding the horror, let’s reveal it by calling “Gun-Free Zones” by its true name: “KILLING ZONES.”

        • This is not a laughing matter, drednicolson. Innocent victims die because good men stand by and do nothing. Good men doing nothing is why evil succeeds in modern-day America.

    • can’t see how armed teachers could have done any worse when viewing this recent LE fiasco…when you have to defend yourself you will, inaction is not an option….what the PG fails to mention is that West Virginia and Ohio now require no permit at all….with no noticeable change in the crime rate….

      • …Pittsburgh is a liberal island in the midst of a conservative sea….rough-tough steelworkers?…now, not so much…mostly pencil necks….

  2. “If some cops don’t get it right, why should the public expect English teachers and counselors to?”

    For one thing- the lives of those cops hanging around outside of the killing zone in Uvalde and other similar scenes were NOT in imminent danger, so WTH?

    Wait for the commander…

    Now, a young school teacher with a gun, inside of a somewhat barricaded classroom that is being kicked in, just might find the where-with-all to use it effectively.

    One thing’s for certain: Under the rules put in place by those who will never encounter such life or death situations, we’ll likely never find out, and demon-possessed thugs, and those out to leave a mark on the world will continue to rule the “gun-free zones”.

    • Someone should make and market large stickers that read: “CAUTION! YOU ARE NOW ENTERING A KILLING ZONE.” Then people who really care about saving lives could fasten these stickers to any sign they see that bans the presence of firearms on that premises.

  3. A police officer carries a firearm as a part of their uniform, and has no duty (requirement) to use that firearm. They are also likely tens-of-minutes away from any incident.

    School staff that choose to carry do so of their own cognizance. While they also have no duty to use that firearm in defense of others, they have made a choice which suggests a willingness to do so. Furthermore, they are not tens-of-minutes away from any incident.

    • And, in my opinion, the school should pay for any and all firearms training that the teachers need.

      • “And, in my opinion, the school should pay for any and all firearms training that the teachers need.“

        No way. (I spent 40 years in public ed classrooms, among many other things.) Such a mandate would likely involve onerous and impossible regulations and hoops, in effect, making the arming of staff nearly impossible. I’d not encourage the bureaucracy to do any more in this effort. Look at what happened to arming airlines pilots after 9-11.

        The only requirement I’d suggest is that all armed staff members be required to maintain secrecy of their carrying. Not even let other staff know. And if students find out, remove/transfer the staff member. Why create a first target?

        The best result for the majority would be to retire without anyone ever knowing he/she/it could’ve prevented further tragedy if needed.

        • thinking that all teachers never carry isi incredibly naive…I direct your attention to the movie “Teachers”….[look fast, you might miss it]

    • You are 100% wrong. Police have a duty to protect and because one group screws up don’t condemn every LEO. I am a retired chief and all the officers in my department have had training that includes you don’t wait you go in to stop the threat. I have no idea why this last fiasco happened, but both the school and the officers involved will eventually receive their just due. I am sick of seeing both groups get off with a slap on the wrist.

      • You are 100% wrong. Police have a duty to protect and

        The courts would disagree with you, Cops have no DUTY to “protect.

        The Supreme Court has ruled that cops have ‘no specific legal duty to individuals.’ unless they are in state custody.

  4. “…Weapons can discharge accidentally….”

    They do not, except for rare instances and why most are called Negligent Discharges.

    Someone was negligent.

    • I used to argue against that term until I went through basic training, one accident where there was some inner malfunction that allowed a m240 to continue firing after the trigger was released. Otherwise all other issues were combinations of loaded chambered safety off and booger hook on bang switch paired with something stupid (typically not removing magazine before clearing weapon in clearing barrel). I am sure there is a non-mechanical incident somewhere some time that could be considered an accidental discharge but with how cherry picked the incident would be I honestly wouldn’t care enough to consider it compared to the mountain of incidents that follow your description.

      • Machines are subject to mechanical failure. This happens. There have been plenty of documented cases of automotive runaways. It sometimes results in a manufacturer recall. The fact that it’s a gun doesn’t change anything.

        • And about the only source of accidental discharges/a talking point for gun grabbers re just up and shoot on their own. Also just about the only legitimate lawsuit against the firearm industry on occasion…….much like the auto industry actually.

        • thinking that all teachers never carry isi incredibly naive…I direct your attention to the movie “Teachers”….[look fast, you might miss it]

        • remember just prior to shooting an MG–42, the owner choosing to break the belt and explaining to me why that might be a good idea

    • !00% in agreement. I have several weapons and they don’t discharge unless someone pulls the trigger. The opinion that they do is just proof of someone that knows absolutely nothing about firearms and typifies those that are against the second amendment because they are uneducated in that area.

  5. I always chuckle at the “an armed teacher could make it worse” nonsense. Some one tell me how, and use really small words, cuz I can’t understand it, how a teacher with a gun in Uvalde could have “made things worse.”

      • I guarantee it, if your child was in that classroom, you would have taken a chance with an armed teacher.

      • Even if a few children were hit or killed by accident during a defensive action it is still better that 80 or 100 being killed with no defense available.

      • Cripes! Let’s cut the “what if?” BS for a bit. Isn’t that always the ploy when legislatures take up “shall issue” concealed carry? Or ditto when permitless/“Constitutional Carry is brought up?

        Wild West in the streets, or classrooms, malls, etc.!! It never happens, except that the general, every night activities in major urban central neighborhoods are certifiably worse than Dodge City or Tombstone ever were. And this is from cretins that are prohibited from even touching a firearm by federal AND state laws.

        Get real.

        • Most likely kids would hit the deck when shooting starts. The schools I went to all had cinderblock walls – any number of YouTube videos of overpenetration tests show it takes multiple impacts in roughly the same spot to send most carbine and pistol rounds through such a wall to threaten anyone else. So while the added risk of an exchange of gunfire is not zero, it’s not significant in a situation where the intent of the one starting the firefight is to kill the maximum number possible and the exchange is happening over the heads of the primary targets of the criminal

      • You make no sense at all, Anon. If a child who was going to die anyway is accidentally killed by an armed teacher trying to save lives, why would it matter who fired the fatal bullet? The teacher who is just trying to save more lives or the killer who is trying to take as many lives as possible. Use your head man. There are enough victims being killed because of gutless wonders like you. If you aren’t part of the solution, you are then part of the problem!

    • it’s all part of their false narrative…teachers are and have been carrying for awhile now in many places.. without any major incidents…remember this is all voluntary, no one is forcing anyone to participate….

  6. “Incredibly, Pennsylvania requires no training for a concealed carry permit.”

    The constitution does not require a law abiding person to ‘qualify’ in some manner to the satisfaction of a ‘government’ entity as to their ‘suitability’ or ‘proficiency’ in the exercise of an inherent constitutional right.

    What’s really incredible is that you don’t realize the constitution exists.

    “in Uvalde, Texas, showed. Nineteen elementary school students and two teachers were killed on May 24 while local law enforcement failed to respond swiftly. …

    If some cops don’t get it right, why should the public expect English teachers and counselors to?”

    Apparently, the post gazette editorial board doesn’t know that in Uvalde the cops did not respond “slowly”, they did not respond to stop the shooter at all until after the fact over an hour later. In the meantime there were armed and not armed parents outside trying to save kids but the cops stopped them from doing so. If a teacher had been armed, they could have at least had a chance to stop the shooter because the cops were not responding to stop the shooter thus gave the teacher zero chance. Even the armed parents would have had a better chance at stopping the shooter had they been permitted close enough to the school to shoot through the windows which the police did not and would not do. It turns out the shooter was visible and easisly targetable through some windows.

    Yes, arm school teachers/staff if they wish to be armed… they are the only ones immediately available all over the school when a school shooter shows up.

    We’ve had armed teachers here for years and its paid off, and not one accident.

    • Ya know over 50 years ago we had race riot’s at my high school. I vividly remember my fat former PE teacher was a coward & ran from the violence. No gunz I’m aware of but kids got hurt & one stabbed. My brother had a chair hit him. Oh yeah the local po-leece were afraid to intervene too. I support teachers being armed but never mandated. I also advocate home schooling!!!

      • Arm white students.

        We are in a race war. I let my high schooler carry to school.

        • I’m not lying. I bought my son a P365 that he pocket Carrie’s. If he’s old enough to drive, he’s old enough to carry.

          This website celebrated an 11 year old girl open carrying an AR15 into a government building. Why call me a democrat for allowing my child to carry at school?

          Do you really support arming blue-haired LGBT+ teachers but not our 17 year old sons? Go promote your leftist gun control BS somewhere else.

        • You’re lying. Hint for next time you want to troll: it’s a dead giveaway when you post the same thing under two different “user names”. Even dacian/Allie McHall is brighter than that.

      • yeah,..these things often started in the school…then spread to the town..certainly what happened in my case..up to that point getting a gun permit wasn’t easy…after the riots they were handing them out like candy canes…had mine ever since…

  7. Any idiot can watch a shut door from the corner of a room and blast an intruder coming through it. One bullet flying in the direction of the incel attacker will have him moving on to the next classroom. He won’t stay and engage in a Hollywood battle.

    Teachers and cops for that matter won’t be John Wicking it.

    • 40 yards… 15 seconds… 8 of 10 body hits…advancing under fire…NO formal training
      Conversation OVER.

    • exactly..he has to come through that door…[choke point]…to get to you and your kids…of course it might help if the external doors were…you know…ACTUALLY LOCKED!…the principal and school security share some blame here….

  9. “Even law enforcement officers” – yeah sure “Even”. Made in thru high school spent a few more weeks in a govt school. Now a ninga/jedi of ______?

  10. I’ve been a teacher for over 20 years. I’ve been trained in 4E and Run, Hide, Fight and multiple improvised barricade and improvised weapon tactics. I know the reality of day to day security measures and what measures are security theater. Regardless of policy, my first suggestion is every school should dump the “No weapons” signs for a different sign that would give an attacker a moment of uncertainty: “The staff of this school has been trained to protect their students by any means necessary.” Are they armed, or do they just have 4E? How many might be armed? Of course knowing most should are done one way or another when meeting credible resistance I’d prefer to have an actual option to be a credible resistance.

    • If we can get rid of ‘gun free zones’ then none of that would even matter. Not even the ability of the bad guy to read.

    • arming teachers should be the decision of parents and school boards…and the decision should be made locally, not at some higher level…

    • …a sign saying…”Notice..some personnel within may be armed”….might be a better idea…I still have a “Beware of the Dog” sign on my front door…even though he died years ago…

        • In the full video the mention the name of the ATF thug, so if he comes to your door..

          Also towards the end of the full video the (identified previously in the video) building manager mentions briefly something indicating the ATF shows up there frequently and residents had complained about it.

          The ATF, violating your constitutional rights and terrorizing defenseless women and kids because they are “Federal Fuc!ng Agents”

      • The ATF thug keeps yelling he can’t breath but never shuts up, keeps yelling, and keeps breathing just fine. Seems to me of he couldn’t breath he’d have trouble yelling and screaming and keeping on talking.

        • this ATF thug is James Burk … the same ATF thug arrested in 2015 for stealing a bottle of wine from a store. I knew that name was familiar.

      • And why should he not be treated the same way the ATF would treat you (if they didn’t kill you first)?

      • Really simple, comply with the LE until they identify you, AND your intentions. He is TRESPASSING on private property, pure and simple.

        As for his intent for being there?
        POS is out infringing on others protected rights, then whines when s/h/it gets treated like an uncooperative perp? 🤔
        Snowflake loser to the infinite power.

        Anywho, Isn’t that what they always want from others, compliance and cooperation?

    • pretty funny, actually….classic comic opera…he paid the price for his arrogance….

      • how many of you remember that big gun show they used to host at the vet?…Columbus has changed, and those days are over….

    • PG used to be a liberal rag…lately its editorial policy is more middle of the road…but they got it wrong on this one…

  13. If some cops don’t get it right, then they shouldn’t be cops. Cops everywhere manage to shoot up the countryside quite well in no-knock breakins, managing to kill babies, grandmothers, innocent bystanders, homeowners, and the family dog. Imagine that, they DO manage alright when everything is scripted, and they are calling the shots! But when there’s not a script, and they aren’t calling every move, they can fail miserably. Cosplay is all hunky-dory on television, but in real life it goes astray. Every police department needs a choreographer on staff!

    Meanwhile, armed citizens manage to screw up pretty badly, (Who was that guy, stopped an active shooter, but still holding weapons when the cops arrived, so they killed him?) but they also get things perfectly right sometimes.

    Huh. Imagine that. It all boils down to the individual, and the situation.

    Armed citizens are people. Cops are people. People screw up badly, and people also shine.

    I’m failing to understand anyone’s point that citizens shouldn’t be armed. Training isn’t what makes the person. We have freaking PhD doctors out in the world driving truck, serving hamburgers, digging ditches, and hammering nails for a living. If training were all that meaningful, those doctors would all be in air conditioned offices, labs, or whatever, instead of laboring for a living.

    • Those cops were getting prepared, for the post incident interview. They were making sure they looked tacticool, had their fly done up, and were practising those big words “alleged”, “perpetrator”, and “delicatessen”.

  14. Hey Gazzetteer!
    Understand fully that you ilk are RESPONSIBLE for stripping the Constitutional Guarantee of Life,
    Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
    from every dead child. Congratulations,
    Moron, YOU DID THIS, Gun Free Zoner!
    We’re all so proud of you. What next?
    You gonna cure cancer, or fix global
    warming? Motormouths like you can’t
    fix a flat or unclog a toilet…
    STOP trying to rule the world.
    You are INCOMPETENT!!!

    • “…..You gonna cure cancer……”

      I thought Barry H.O. assigned Brandon as the ‘Cancer Czar’ to cure cancer.

      You mean the hairsniffer never got around to it? 🤔

  15. I don’t think we should be “arming teachers”. Most are insane far left sh*tlib liberals.

    They are more likely to use the gun against my white Christian heterosexual right-wing son.

    If anything, I support arming STUDENTS. (At least the white male students. The blacks already bring guns to school. The framers of the Bill of Rights never intended rights to apply to women or blacks.) Most teachers are incompetent at life and can’t be trusted with firearms. They are fat and vote for people like Kamala Harris.

    Also, we should bring prayer back to public schools. And deport illegals and end birthright citizenship. Also, before height and weight standards for cops.

    I am 100% serious. This is not satire. I know I have heterodox beliefs.

        • This is why we need to arm students. The only thing that can stop a bad teacher with a gun is a good student with a gun.

          I started letting my son carry a knife to school when he was 10. When he got to high school, I gave him a S&W 43c .22lr j-frame. Once he got his driver’s license, I let him carry a p365. He prefers the 12-rd mag with a spare 15-rd. He knows the school is a non-permissive environment, so concealed means concealed. He worked out a strategy with an attorney for a plan if he gets caught by the school. I feel much better knowing my child has 28 rounds of +P Speer gold dot on him at his “diverse and vibrant” public school.

          In our house, we believe in freedom. We live it. In my state, someone can carry on their 18th birthday. Doesn’t make sense to have them learn to do it at home? In a safe environment? If you trust your 16 year old to drive a 7000lb SUV, but not to carry- you are delusional and anti-gun.

      • inner city schools don’t seem to experience these mass shootings…they know the threat is real and security is tight….

  16. I have had my CCW for about 12 years. When they first became available in my state my company (electronic mfg) got everyone together who wanted to apply and we did a group thing. Back then this was mandatory : a shooting test and 6 hour class. I did not mind the shooting test as I like to show off my skills. The classroom session was great as it provided a wealth of information and was plain fun to attend. Shoot / don’t shoot examples. Went over the laws. And the thing that sticks out in my mind was when the instructor (ex LE) told us “a CCW does not make you a cop”. It was a great experience and yes, I do think a shooting test and some class time should be mandatory. It certainly doesn’t hurt.

    • …….“a CCW does not make you a cop”……..

      Excellent point.

      Be polite, de-escalate, disengage. Those who ignore that and get on the ‘escalation of force ladder’ usually regret it.

      Ex: Some idiot throws a drink at you, you pepper spray them, they attack you with fists or a knife, you shoot them. 🤔
      Escalation followed by deadly force never plays well in a court of law.

      The carried firearm is NOT a problem solver. It’s the absolute final option to preserve life after ALL other realistic options have become unfeasible.

      • I think literacy, as in reading the constitution, should be mandatory to run for any public office.

        • Phil Murphy (Govonor of NJ) stated the Construction is above his pay grade.
          🤔
          The citizens of that state get EXACTLY what they vote for.

        • jwm
          Not to vote no. IF your a legal voter (not libtard legal) the ballot should be read to you if you can’t read it. I was stating to hold public office reading and understanding the constitution should be a real thing

    • That’s all very good and interesting. You seem to have been, at that point in time, a newb, a rookie, uninitiated into gun culture.

      Now, what about the guy who grew up with guns? Maybe he has military service, and consequently, is intimate with guns. Maybe his dad is a cop, and has thoroughly informed him about rights, responsibilities, and the law. Maybe he is a lawyer, and thoroughly knows the law. He still has to take these mandatory classes, which he could probably TEACH?!?!?

      Bearucratic nonsense. I’ll pass, thank you.

      On the other hand, I would strongly encourage newbs to GET SOME TRAINING!! Watching 20 years of Hollywood, and playing 20 years of video games doesn’t make you a gun expert.

    • if you’ve never had any..[training]..and are a total neophyte, yes…and the bulk of that should be concentrated on your actual status under the law…

  18. But guns and classrooms don’t mix:

    Especially in the hands of some deranged monster hell-bent on killing a bunch of kids for no reason other than their feeeelz got hurt.

  19. …Weapons can discharge accidentally….”

    Been carrying guns of various types and configurations for over 60 years and I have never had one go off all by itself. I HAVE seen “unintentional” (aka negligent) discharges as the result of some moron doing something stupid trying to show off or “being cool”. A gun in a properly fitted and worn holster or placed securely in a biometric safe or a locked desk drawer will NOT just start shooting on its own. No matter what the “scholars” believe a firearm requires some sort of human interaction to perform its primary function which is to cause a projectile to move from point A to point B in a rapid and (hopefully) accurate manner.

  20. WE NEED TO ARM THE CHILDREN

    This is why we need to arm students. The only thing that can stop a bad teacher with a gun is a good student with a gun.

    I started letting my son carry a knife to school when he was 10. When he got to high school, I gave him a S&W 43c .22lr j-frame. Once he got his driver’s license, I let him carry a p365. He prefers the 12-rd mag with a spare 15-rd. He knows the school is a non-permissive environment, so concealed means concealed. He worked out a strategy with an attorney for a plan if he gets caught by the school. I feel much better knowing my child has 28 rounds of +P Speer gold dot on him at his “diverse and vibrant” public school.

    In our house, we believe in freedom. We live it. In my state, someone can carry on their 18th birthday. Doesn’t it make sense to have them learn to do it at home? In a safe environment? If you trust your 16 year old to drive a 7000lb SUV, but not to carry- you are delusional and anti-gun.

    -stop calling people that believe in the drafters of the Bill of Rights (not the constitution, which replaced the very good Articles of Confederation) racists

    -stop calling me a democrat because I don’t support the gun control laws you want (restricting children from concealed carrying)

    -most teachers are fat LGBT+ groomers; arming them is dumb. They will shoot your white Christian son for “hate speech”

    -arm the children. If they are old enough to have babies, they are old enough to carry. If they are old enough to drive, they are old enough to carry.

    -if you do not support allowing children to carry, you are promoting gun control.

    -I am not a troll, I am just probably more right wing and more pro freedom than you if you don’t like what I’m saying. If I offend you, go move to Canada or California with your they/them life partner.

  22. Am I the only one to find iy odd that the UK whnich has really,really tough firearm legislation with the full support of the electorate also has probably one of THE highest trained POLICE ARUS [Armed Response Units ] there are extant.
    Every Police Officer that has licensed to carry firearms in the UK has to undertake extremely tough and regular training and updating and there is a NO FAILURE POLICY it’s 100% pass or nothing. Esecial emphasis is on all aspects of HANDLING SAFETY including the risks of collateral damage. You might be surprised at how many Police Officers in the UK have access to firearms on a regular basis. HOwver the authority to use them always comes from a higher authority. If an Armed Response Unit is called in the Officer I/C, irrespective of rank of that Unit will have received prior authority to take charge of the situation until that situation has been resolved and the ARU has been given permission to Stand Down.

    • I am fed up with people who use European countries as examples of gun-free successful Democracies. These countries are free Democracies because of a Free United States and the United States is a Free country because it has the 2nd Amendment in its Constitution.

      • Bullshit Seentoomuch

        Some European Countries have a higher degree of democracy than the U.S. because the have parliamentary governments with multiple political parties. They also do not permit the frivolous law suits we do. And they have more freedom of speech than we do.

        We will never stop mass shootings in the U.S. until we vet all gun purchases, have safe storage laws, require mental tests and put semi-auto rifles on the NFA list and increase the tax stamp to todays inflation rate. Remember that original 1930 $200 tax stamp today would equal $3,548.00 today. That would reduce the number of assault rifles very quickly.

        • You’re working to stifle free speech, you nazi bastard, dacian. And the ship has sailed on your wish list for gun laws. By the end of Trumps second term we will have nation wide constitutional carry and there is nothing you can do about it.

          Next stop is to open the registry for the sale of new machine guns.

        • @dacian

          “Some European Countries have a higher degree of democracy than the U.S. because the have parliamentary governments with multiple political parties.”

          dacian, parliamentary governments are not a form of ‘democracy’.

          A democracy is a system of government by the whole population or all the eligible members of a state, typically through elected representatives. In a parliamentary government the parliament governs as its own entity independant of the will of the people.

          parliamentary governments are a form of feudal tyranny, not democracy. Simply because ‘party members’ (and there are multiple parties) are elected to the parliament does not make them a democracy. Simply because the country parliament government seems to be ‘benevolent’ in some manner towards the people does not mean its a ‘democracy’. All countries in Europe have some form of a feudal tyranny government, it comes in different flavors, and none of then are a ‘democracy’. All countries in Europe were born from ‘feudal tyranny’, they have just changed it to different forms over the years to represent them selves on the world stage. The people in Europe literally live under ‘fedual tyranny’.

        • Booger Brain if you think the U.S. has any citizen control you live in a fantasy world. Our Government operates on corruption and the Congressmen are prostitutes of the rich and powerful. The Congressmen in most cases have a job for life because their is no term limits. If all this is not an oligarchy of the rich then nothing would be.

        • Yeah, parliamentary government is REAL fun, you elect YOUR representatives, and THEY form a government and select a Prime Minister, BUT if they cannot form a coalition OR agree on a Prime Minister or decide they don’t like the guy after they pick him then YOU have to go back and select another representative or two or three or whatever as many times as necessary to finally form a majority coalition. Sounds like fun to me, voting a couple of times a year would be way cool. As to free speech you really should take a quick tour of Europe, you’d be surprised at the WORDS that can get you locked up.
          Finally: “We will never stop mass shootings in the U.S”… At least you got THAT right.
          I will never understand WHY so many people HATE this country and our way of life, yet they still remain HERE bitching constantly living a life of perpetual fear and loathing while their ideal UTOPIA is only a plane ticket away. If you don’t love it here then by all means get yourself somewhere that you can love, this world has something for everyone somewhere.

        • As usual, dacian, you miss the point entirely. The United States saved Europe’s bacon in WWII and has protected them with our huge military budgets from Russia and Communist aggression. These European countries pay diddly squat in military funding for their own protection. They can afford to be cavalier and generous with their populace. Our nuclear umbrella has kept their asses out of some deep shit for the past 80 years. It is evident, dacian, that you don’t know shit from Shinola. No country is perfect and no country will ever be perfect. Those who bad-mouth the US all the time don’t know how good they have it. If the US didn’t exist, what kind of world would we have? Hell, people all over the world are trying to come here. If this was such a bad place as you idiots claim it is, why in hell is everyone trying to come here? This is just further proof that you idiots don’t know what you’re talking about.

        • Here is a “prime example” of one of those European “Democracies” and their freedom of speech…

          A British veteran was arrested by Hampshire police after the man reposted a meme depicting the LGBT pride flag in the shape of a swastika onto his Facebook page.
          In a viral video taken of the arrest, the man, 51-year-old Darren Brady, is told by police officers that the reason he’s being arrested is because the meme he posted to Facebook had been too upsetting to someone in the community.

      • …and all those highly-touted “social perks” come at the expense of their defense establishment…Trump was right about that…..

    • The media “shock and outrage” over Hungerford and Dunblane had probably more to do with UK gun control. Especially as Dunblane was allowed to happen by The Establishment.

      The perpetrator was seen attending the local gun clubs as a “Visitor” and doing things the clubs thought were alarming. The clubs had a discussion and worked out the perp was NOT a member of any of the clubs. The clubs approached the District Commissioner, who has the ultimate say in firearms licenses, that the perp was not a member of any of the clubs and not complying with license requirements. The DC said “we see no reason to revoke his license and take the firearms”.

      Dunblane happened, and the DC was suddenly “transferred”. The Establishment must never be called to account for their failures. It is the “natural order”.

    • You might also be “shocked” to find that no one on the west side of the Atlantic (with the exception of some of the sheeple of the Great White North) actually five a flaming fuck about your cops and their problems.

    • @Albert L J Hall

      “Am I the only one to find iy odd that the UK whnich has really,really tough firearm legislation with the full support of the electorate also has probably one of THE highest trained POLICE ARUS [Armed Response Units ] there are extant.”

      You are about the only one that believes it.

      The facts do not support your belief.

  24. remember seeing two gendarmes strolling through the airport in Brussels…one with an Uzi casually draped over his shoulder…have yet to see that here….

  25. also remember being singled out for query at Heathrow…[do I really look that scary?]…even though my wife and kids were with me…before boarding a Pan Am jumbo…yeah, the same one that met its demise about three weeks later…still recall wondering why we were still over land a half hour into the flight…checked the seatback map only to find we were still over Scotland…still get a little shudder when I think about that one…

    • Pan Am, no way, thats a CIA company that had pakastani’s making airplane parts out of soup cans.

  26. If you want to get rid of the police, there is no need to defund them, just take away their guns. They won’t quit or file for retirement faster and no one will volunteer to replace them.

  27. Store Clerk Shoots Man After Being Attacked With Knife

    https://concealednation.org/2022/08/store-clerk-shoots-man-after-being-attacked-with-knife/

    Sadly, this is pretty normal in the U.S. . ~1,300 victims daily in the U.S. are attacked by violent criminals who use knives for the attack – over 470,000 victims annually. 75% of the victims are not armed and are seriously injured or killed (later death after the attack), 18% of the victims are armed and are not seriously injured or killed (sometimes there are minor injuries), 2% of the victims are armed and are seriously injured or killed, 3% of the victims are not armed and are killed immediately, 2% of the victims are not armed but the criminal does not proceed with the attack for some reason. Its extremely rare for knife attacks to make the news.

    annually, nationwide, there are over 52,000 victims of knife (or other sharpened edged or pointed weapons) attacks in school buildings or on school grounds. There are hundreds of serious injuries and deaths as a result. Less than 0.2% make the news and when it does make the news its local news, less then 1% involve police – this is because the schools try to handle it as a ‘mental health’ crisis and keep it quiet and don’t call the police.

    Annually, nationwide during school hours on school grounds, there are over 38,000 teachers or staff or students violently sexually assaulted by use of hands and fists or blunt objects use by perpetrators. Less than 0.6% are reported to police. Less than 0.2% make the news and when it does make the news its local news.

    Annually, nationwide during school hours on school grounds, there are over 30,000 violent assaults (not sexual assault) on students, teachers, and school staff by use of hands and fists or blunt objects use by perpetrators. Less than 0.4% are reported to police. Less than 0.2% make the news and when it does make the news its local news.

    (in case you haven’t noticed by the trend of “Less than 0.2% make the news and when it does make the news its local news.” – the news media doesn’t really care about you teachers and staff and students. Its extremely rare for such incidents to make the national news.)

    Teachers and school staff need to get off this ‘anti-gun’ agenda band wagon and realize their school environment danger is much more than what is the relatively ‘extremely’ rare school shooting.

  28. If you can’t trust your children’s teacher with a gun then you can’t trust your children’s teacher with the task of educating them.

  29. Guns keep us safe, guns save lives! I’d rather have a gun and not need it than need one and not have one!

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