This pocket dump is a bit unique because the gun involved is a Polymer80 PF940C. The Polymer80 80% frames require you to use a drill press to finish the gun. I have some myself and will attest to their being great builds as long as you pay attention to detail. So, here’s the question. Do you guys things an 80% frame is a good idea for concealed carry? Why – or why not?
No serial number might concern the PoPo If you have to use it.
“No serial number might concern the PoPo If you have to use it.”
That greatly depends on where you will carry it and potentially use it.
Where I live, Polk county in central Florida, the DA and the local LE are just fine with lawful self-defense.
Miami well may be an entirely different (and far worse!) story.
Know the ‘lay of the land’ where you will be carrying…
The issue to me would be, the police don’t always know the exact laws on everything. They know some of the laws. They know that having a firearm with no or defaced serial # is against the law. They may not know the exception to that is if you build it yourself. So all they will see is “no serial #”. Not “weapon doesn’t require one”.
The questions from them would now become “What are you trying to hide? Did you build this weapon to attempt to avoid detection and tracing? Are you an assassin?” If there’s any question at all as to the “justified need of the shoot”; They’re going to keep digging on the basis that it doesn’t pass their “smell test”.
I am putting parts together for my first P80 build. I have one of the new P940CL frames—-Glock 17 slide/Glock 19 sized lower. It’s going to be a fun project. I also have doubts about carrying it.
If one carries a P80 and has to use it, he’d better hope the shoot is not only justified, but isn’t easily exploitable by the government. You don’t want to be a some white guy with a bunch of Threeper and Molon Labe or “Heritage not Hate” stickers on your car who shoots the new Trayvon Martin.
“Your honor, it is our opinion that Mr X was an alt-right racist who built an untraceable Ghost Gun in his garage. He was clearly planning to murder someone and throw the gun away. It is only through the hard work of our law enforcement officers, he might’ve gotten away with it. Now poor Tyquangelo Jackson is dead because the defendent had a desire to kill someone. Here, look at his social media history. Look at all the gun forums he posted in. Look at all the questions about building the “perfect gun”.
And it’s off to prison with you. There are people who warn against any modifications on carry pistols. I won’t carry anything with a proper name. I only carry pistols with model numbers. CW9, Glock 43, Springfield XD-S. I don’t carry ammo with a scary name.
Carrying a pistol I made in my garage seems like too much ammo to hand a liberal prosecutor.
But I could also be a bit overly concerned about this.
Bingo. You don’t need a crystal ball to imagine how a prosecutor would play this.
Perhaps, but the same concern has been raised time and again about carrying reloads instead of factory ammo in a self-defense pistol. Massad Ayoob has written extensivly on this, and I don’t recall him ever saying that handloads were a factor. In the courtroom, the only thing that matters is the actual facts of the case – was the shooting justifiable. Now, in the liberal-slanted courtroom of public opinion these days, who knows?
The same could be said of any mixmaster AR used for home defense. If you’ve done any customization at all, it was undoubtedly to make it even deadlierer.
—Massad Ayoob has written extensivly on this, and I don’t recall him ever saying that handloads were a factor.—
Massad Ayoob has stated time and time again not to carry handloads – and that if a question as to the circumstances, specifically as to distances involved that factor ammo keeps examplars to due forensic testing.
and in spite of the fact that forensic science is used all the time in court – it often boils down to nothing but opinion and that of a forensic tech stating “there should be more powder residue if the shooting happened at this range”.
Now has a handload ever been a “deciding” factor? no – not that we know of, Jury deliberations are usually private. Is it “ammunition” (no pun intended) that the prosecutors can point to, Possibly. Massad Ayoob’s advice is give the prosecution as little to work with as possible.
The few extra dollars for factor ammo, in the long run, are inconsequential to the costs of defending yourself from a prosecution.
I’m also going to build a pistol with the P940CL frame. I doubt I’ll ever carry it as my intent is to build an RMR equipped range toy. It may see a home defense role at some point but I’ve got that slot ably filled by a Sig P220 with a light on it. I’m building my P940CL with a Zev slide and barrel. Still trying to decide what trigger to go with. It’ll have a Vortex Venom initially. Should be a fun gun.
Carrying a gun you built is just asking for legal trouble if you had to use it. I hope this person reconsiders this decision.
That’s like saying Bill Wilson would be in legal troubled for using a gun that he built ?
I don’t think it works that way,
The weapons Bill Wilson builds on his production line have serial numbers…
Serial number or not, I’m sure what Bill wants Bill gets, no silly ATF forms or whatnot,
“Ohh that one’s pretty I think I’ll take it right off the production floor,”
“Serial number or not, I’m sure what Bill wants Bill gets, no silly ATF forms or whatnot,…”
If Bill sees a shiny one on the production line, yeah, he gets to claim it.
But when you are a firearm manufacturer, you don’t get much leeway to play games like have firearms with no serial numbers on them just laying around when the ATF drops in to do a spot-check.
Perhaps Jon Wayne Taylor, who is a manufacturer, could opine on this?
“Do you guys things an 80% frame is a good idea for concealed carry?”
That depends entirely on where you live/travel. In lots of places I don’t think it matters at all. In others you might find the D.A. isn’t very friendly towards your unserialized “ghost gun”.
Also, what’s with all the solid kydex IWB holsters out there? That seems extremely uncomfortable to me.
In a lot of cases it’s like they sat down to figure out exactly how to make AIWB even MORE uncomfortable.
Yeah…
I’ve been carrying AIWB in all kydex holsers for a few years now and find it to be totally comfortable. A good holster with smooth lines and no sharp edges is just as comfortable as my, now totally unused, alien gear cloak tuck.
If he’s a cop in a slave state he can do as he damn well pleases.
“Any custom ammo, custom gun, or any customization at all, automatically voids your self-defense claim. Only own ammo and weapons used by your local police department.” – Internet
More like zealous prosecutors. Keep reading and you’ll see.
Polymer80 has come out with serialized grip modules so if I was to carry one I’d go that route.
You can add your own serial number. Geez people calm down.
I wish they would come out with a gen 4 and up compatible grip frame.
AFAIK Gen4 design features (changes from the Gen3 and previous) are patented. Gen 3 and previous have expired, now the Glock signature “Shape” is trademarked and copyrighted, but functional design features of patents do not last more than 21 years (including a provisional patent).
I have 2 poly 80 “Glockenspiel” that I’ve build, as well as a few home milled AR15’s
I decided to create and stamp my own “serial number” for the reasons to cover my @$$ in the unfortunate event that I would have to use them in a SD situation
That’s just my preference, I know legally I don’t have to,
If it goes bang why not. I don’t know as this has never happened to me, but I wouldn’t think a serial number would be of great concern in a court room. The only time I’ve had serial numbers in a court room was proving it was purchased before 1994.
I think you want 100% whole pistol.
80% is not sufficient.
Sheesh!
My main issue is that it costs as much (if not more) to build a polymer80 gun as it does to buy a brand new Glock. Sure, I guess it’d be fun to build, but part of the fun should be that it’s significantly cheaper.
there is fear and hatred of the legality of this process. i could see a homemade getting extra attention. or not.
for carry, something that cycles reliably.
or slap a mechtech on it.
No one has mentioned proven absolute reliability.
Personally, I would rather daily carry a high quality factory gat that I was (fairly) certain would not fail in an emergency for some micro meter of imprecision or cost savings.
I LOVE me some Polymer80, I built 300BLK AR from one of their lowers recently that I can’t seem to fire enough; but If you have to fire that EDC in anger, the prosecutor is going to have a field day in your asshole, and you are NOT going to get a participation ribbon.