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Gang bangers (courtesy frugal-cafe.com)

This is not my question. It’s a query posed by the headline from an article at politico.com. After a more-or-less factual recitation of the Dunn “loud music case,” author Roger Simon concludes with a question about race, and guns.

“Strolla, Dunn’s lawyer, said the trial was not about race but about a ‘subculture thug issue.’ But who are the real thugs? The unarmed black kids who play loud music or walk to stores to buy Skittles? Or the white guys who are armed to the teeth and quick on the trigger?”

I don’t think Mr. Simon’s framed the question correctly. What about armed gang bangers who play loud music or white guys armed to the teeth who are not “quick on the trigger”? I’d ask it this way: who are the most dangerous thugs in our society, and why shouldn’t honest, law-abiding citizens be armed against them? Your thoughts?

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85 COMMENTS

    • Yeah; with good situational awareness and the ability to KABA; I’m not worried much by a bunch of thugs with an attitude; They have shown themselves to be cowards that run at the first sign of an citizen willing to protect themselves with lethal force.

      The thugs I’m worried by are the one’s all in black wearing ski masks breaking down the wrong door in the middle of the night yelling incomprehensible gibberish that are wearing a badge. Or the thugs in government perfectly happy to make me defenseless by outlawing the ability to KABA and making gun free zones empowering the homicidal maniac by dis-arming law abiding citizens.

  7. One thing that never really was highlighted in the “loud music case” was the fact the “victims” left the scene to go over to a vacant lot or somewhere before coming back. Me thinks some one or person could dispose of an “arm” so they could be unarmed when asked by the police.

    I see why the jury ruled as they would but at the same time a thug doesn’t have to carry a firearm to rule a neighborhood. As they said in the movie “The Usual Suspects”, “All it takes is the will to do what others won’t.” A thug doesn’t live by the norms of society, the laws of it, and tramples on other’s rights when it suits them. This can be done with a lead pipe, a good sized possey, and the will to intimidate.

    The existence of a firearm does not make one a thug, the existence of the thug attitude makes one a thug. A good example of the definition of a thug is the movie Lago with Clint Eastwood. Despite having the numbers, the firepower, and the law on their side the town of Lago feared a few guys who just got out of prison.

  8. The real thugs are the people pushing their ideals on everyone, trying to define what a thug is for everyone. If it were a religious group this could generate some controversy, but it’s considered normal for the media. Law-abiding citizens are punished for future-crimes of those that either ignore the law or are otherwise barred anyway from owning firearms, yet we are considered the thugs. I guess the “gun-bully” meme is the new cornerstone of the anti-gun side.

    • Another misnomer dumped into our laps by the grabbers and lefty media to control the dialogue by using terms to demonize any pro-gunner or other person who dares to challenge their claims.

      “Gun-bully” does not exist. No firearm or other inanimate object can possess human attributes. A ‘bully with a gun’ would be accurate, but that takes the focus off the gun and diminishes the effect of implicating all gun owners as being inherently bully like.

  9. Well, consider that one of the major media outlets referred to a skier who’s 23, married with a kid and the family regularly attends church as “having an alternate lifestyle”. Decent people have become the abhorrence

  10. “who are the most dangerous thugs in our society, and why shouldn’t honest, law-abiding citizens be armed against them? Your thoughts?”

    Police,Lawyers and Judges that refuse to nullify Laws that infringe on the peoples rights….. it’s Obvious that trying to reign in the politicians is pointless.

  11. Thugs come in all forms. Weather it’s Bernard Madoff,Joaquín Guzmán Loera, or Kwame Kilpatrick, their end goal is to take advantage of people to feed their greed.

    • “According to the FBI Uniform Crime Reports, in the year 2008 black youths, who make up 16% of the youth population, accounted for 52% of juvenile violent crime arrests, including 58.5% of youth arrests for homicide and 67% for robbery. Black youths were overrepresented in all offense categories except DUI, liquor laws and drunkenness.”

      I have heard it argued that black youths are overrepresented because of the inherent racism of the justice system.

      I don’t necessarily agree with that opinion personally, just presenting a counter-point.

      When someone screams “RACISM!”, what I actually hear is someone saying, “I’m am no longer interested in dealing with facts or logic.”

      • If the system was inherently racist then this would also be reflected in the columns for DUI, liquor laws and drunkenness. The percentages for these offenses are roughly equal to population demographics:

        http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2010/crime-in-the-u.s.-2010/tables/table-43

        Are the police being racially selective in all categories except these three? What is the probability of that occurring? Remember the data is for arrests, not convictions since the argument can be made that the poor, which include a large percentage of minorities, may not have the resources for adequate counsel.

    • Yeah; if you note the disparity of income and education based on race and blame it on racism; you are lauded by the statist press; if you note the disparity of crime rates based on race; your a racist.

  14. It is interesting, to me at least, that the origin of Thug is the prevalence of the Thuggee bands in India. Their M.O. was to infiltrate caravans and traveling groups with the end goal of leading the group into an ambush.

    So with that said, I would nominate Evolve, Americans for Responsible Solutions, and all public officials and law enforcement officials who always start with “I’m a gun owner just like you, but…..”

  17. Well, aside from the obvious answer (“the government”), how about applying the “by their fruits shall ye know them” standard? The real thugs are the people who commit violent crimes, no matter what their race, creed, color, uniform, or whatever.

    “If you commit a violent crime you are a thug.” Does that work as a definition?

  19. I don’t usually waste my time commenting on articles I read, but I tried to do so at Politico the other day when I read this piece. What I was going to say, if I hadn’t encountered so much trouble trying to sign on to their site, was that I expected much better from Politico. This article was more like a tantrum – absolute gibberish.

  20. This guy was serious??? I’d love to see him wandering around my neighborhood south of Chicago. Probably wish he had a few “trigger happy white men” by his side(lol).

  21. Have you been to downtown Seattle lately? Homeless and Thugs all mixed together in a city with a Police Dept that passes out Doritos at Marijuana Rallies. A city council that cares more about passing $15 minimum wage in the city than the safety of the people. My wife was with friends and was obscenely and frightened – flashed full-on and the police never even showed to take a report. It was such I nice place to go.

    It is these reasons I avoid Seattle and if forced to go there, I carry. It used to be such a great downtown area.

  22. Why it’s quite simple, ol’ boy. Thugs are a bunch of godless dishonourable prigs who murder travelers in British India.

  24. Ya know, the first thought in my mind when I saw that picture? Those must be excited fans waiting to get an autograph outside the studio where Piers Morgan tapes his show !

  25. GMAFB. 95% of murder or attempted murder in Boston is gangbanger thugs like the ones pictured. Same with every other city in MA. In every case it is drug deals or “disrespect”. In the mass suburbs, there are no thugs, and there is essentially zero crime. Suburb dwellers aren’t traveling to Dorchester and roxbury to shoot up the place, it’s always their own homegrown thugs oing the killing. So yeah, we know who the thugs are.

  26. Dunn may or may not been in fear of his life, but he made some serious errors (and maybe escalated a minor situation) leading one to assume that he had little or no defensive pistol training: 1.) Getting out of his vehicle and continuing to fire at the Durango as it pulled away and, 2.) Not reporting the incident immediately to the police. If nothing else, he’s guilty of poor judgement.

  27. Tell me why capping these miscreants on principle is a crime again?

    It’s not like they’ll ever do anything productive.

  28. Who are the most dangerous thugs in our society?

    (1) Politicians and government bureaucrats including bad (arguably most) cops.
    (2) Violent outlaw gangs who do not value life.
    (3) Violent criminals who rape, rob, and murder.
    … and probably in that order.

    Did I miss anyone?

  29. “Strolla, Dunn’s lawyer, said the trial was not about race but about a ‘subculture thug issue.’ But who are the real thugs? The unarmed black kids who play loud music or walk to stores to buy Skittles? Or the white guys who are armed to the teeth and quick on the trigger?”

    The ones employed by the largest criminal organization in the world.

  30. To this day, the greatest loss of life in any mass shooting in modern history (as in since TV covered the news) was committed by whom? The answer is federal agents at Waco TX who killed 87 and wounded 16.

    We should consider disarming the government before disarming civilians.

    • +1000. I don’t know how many readers the last two have, but MSNBC’s market share is about a miserable 250,000. The liberal thugs at NBC/Universal/Comcast must be pained to have to prop them up.

  32. A thug is anyone who intends to remove my rights to Life, Liberty, and lately, the fruitless pursuit of happiness.

    DRT.

  33. I drive to downtown Birmingham every day for work and I see real thugs more than I would care to. The city is slowly building up downtown into a great place but they have one last project near St Vincents hospital which is a hornets nest for thugs and crime downtown. There was a gun fight between a 15yr old and 16 yr old kid.. Its ridiculous.. My wife use to think I was wrong for getting my permit and carrying, now we are in the process of getting her into a NRA class and going to the range more. She likes my Sig P238 and I am more than happy for her to carry it

  34. I hate how ‘thug’ has become racially tinged. I love it as a word referring to people who get off on mugging, robbing, assaulting and all sorts of other violent crimes as a way of life. Then you have ‘thug culture’, embraced by many who I place into the ‘wannabe’ thug group. Blasting rap music out your car? You’re actin’ like a wannabe thug. Doesn’t mean you deserve to die, but it doesn’t mean it has to do with race.

    Justin Bieber is a great example of a wannabe thug… the kind of person who pays a grown man to ‘hold him back’ as he threatens people.

  35. You never know…..and that’s the whole point of being aware and prepared.

    Being a thug is one thing, being a scared old codger is another. Obviously, both are dangerous.

  37. Ms. Jackson-Lee (whose national holiday we just celebrated) is a race-baiting POS. Maybe she’ll think better is said gang-bangers paid her a little visit.

  39. I’m assuming the article photo is stock however, it warrants the question… has any of the men in the photo spent time with those firearms enough to learn to not be a danger to bystanders in their live fire exchanges? Do they care?

  40. I would say the organized drug gangs are the most dangerous thugs & some are much worse than others. Around here you stand a pretty good chance of walking away from a robbery regardless of the race of the perps. You get sideways with a drug gang & thats probably it for you.

  42. Not race, age or economic status. It’s attitude. Too damn many people with an “in-your-face” attitude.

  43. Roger Simon from Chicago has an enviable resume as an objective journalist, who made his bones revealing the absurdities of politicians with three books in the 90s, but has gone soft since then, as an apologist for Obama, who even now cant bring himself as a journalist to do much more than say- “this was not as strong as I hoped”. http://www.creators.com/opinion/roger-simon/give-us-the-truth-mr-president.html

    This cheap shot “thugs” comment at the end is pretty sad, actually, but I suppose predictable given its Politico. There is no point in parsing this, for just like Chris “Tingles” Matthews, Roger Simon from Chicago is going to be remembered as another morality tale, on what happens to you, as a journalist, when you decide to take sides, and become a propagandist. I wont be wasting any more time on him.

    A far MORE interesting and enjoyable writer is Roger L. Simon of PJ Media fame- like Horowitz, Roger L is a former lefty who questioned his own beliefs when confronted with reality, and made the courageous intellectual decision to admit when wrong, and speak up since, based on facts.

    http://pjmedia.com/rogerlsimon/

  44. PS- the real thugs are the Democratic black leaders, the community organizers, and race hustlers, who built their credibility in the black community, who may once have been idealistic, but now know very well how these numbers in welfare, prison, and crime stats, have come about.

    For it is they who DONT speak out, to their everlasting shame and dishonor, when they could do good- other than an impotent hand flapping or two for brownie points, to instead get into the streets and spend that credibility to create an honest look in the mirror, on the reality of the dependency culture and victimization of the urban black community, that continues to cycle downward in a death spiral.

    Other black leaders, like Thomas Sowell, Justice Thomas, and Bill Crosby have spoken out – and you can add the Thug title to those in the StateRunMedia who have smeared them, as Oreos, or worse simply ignored the obvious message of truth, political correctness be damned.

    We dont need to name names- anyone paying attention knows who they are, and so do they, who will have to live with the regrets in old age for a generation of Hope lost, when they could have really made a Change, but sold out, for the money and the power, instead…

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