The Washington state legislature passed a “high capacity” magazine ban last week. The bill is now on Washington Governor Jay Inslee’s desk, but he’s already stated that he’ll be only too happy to sign it into law.
That means that as of July 1, the manufacture, importation, distribution, sale or offering for sale magazines that hold more than ten rounds of ammunition will be illegal.
Standard capacity magazines owned prior to July 1 will be grandfathered in under the new ban. As a result, a number of retailers are pushing to get as many magazines shipped to Washington gun owners before the drop dead date as possible.
Aero Precision is based in Tacoma.
Palmetto State Armory is prioritizing all orders from Washington buyers.
We talked to Magpul, a company with some experience in this area. They told us they are . . .
…prioritizing fulfillment of all orders for Washington State over other open orders. We also have leadership dialed into the legislative world to fight all arising and in-place gun control efforts as well.
TTAG’s spoken to other large retailers who are working on similar efforts to prioritize any orders from Washington customers.
The Supreme Court will be issuing its opinion on the Bruen case some time before its session ends for the summer. While the New York case doesn’t have any direct bearing on magazine capacity limits in Washington, California, Maryland or anywhere else, it’s widely expected that the ruling — depending on how broadly it’s written — could provide the basis for a new flood of challenges to a range of gun control laws currently on the books.
Don’t touch that dial.
Just wait. At first they will be “grandfathered” then in a couple of years a new bill/law will make the previous grandfathered “pre-ban” magazines also illegal. Just like they did in CA.
That was the impetus (AB63, 2016) that led to the chaos resulting in 2019’s “Freedom Week” for us, and the pending request for SCOTUS to take up Duncan v. Bonta and settle it once and for all.
The rush to sell standard mags into WA reminds me of the rush to get mags into CA during Freedom Week. I hope they flood into the state before the cutoff date.
On a similar note, I’ve noticed how sellers of 80% frames (P80, Lone Wolf, 5D Tactical, et al) have been running discount sales recently, as July 1 is also the deadline for the ability to order such frames in CA without going through an FFL. After the deadline, CA will treat unfinished frames as actual firearms and require all sales to go through FFLs. And there is no definition of what constitutes an unfinished frame/receiver (80%? 70%? the proverbial block of aluminum?), so hopefully the law will be struck down and made “void for vagueness”.
Yup
This is all I have to say about it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7MRewuFcFw
California, Oregon and Washington SHOULD be split into East and West states.
In the past a number friends have teased me wanting to know why I have hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of magazines of a capacity of 30 rounds or greater ……this is why.
Absolutely. That’s called you being well prepared.
Have read and seen several items from Washington state about how they can go to other states, and bring back magazines that will hold more than 10rds, and nothing can be done about it. The general claim is that government must prove they didn’t have those “high capacity” magazines prior to the ban.
Seems to me that government can compel people to produce receipts under subpoena for records in a criminal trial. And while it is not currently illegal to not keep receipts, lack of proof of purchase will be used to sway juries.
However, the effective means of enforcement appears to depend on contact with police for actions unrelated to magazine possession.
Wonder if taping AR magazines together would be “constructive possession” of a “high capacity” magazine? Would the tape itself be considered a “high capacity” magazine?
One does not need to “prove” themselves innocent, the burden is placed on the prosecution.
Jim Warren,
I used to have the same thought and then someone explained why that does not work.
Here is how it will actually work. After July 1st, it will be illegal to acquire magazines with 11 or more capacity. Police find you with a 11+ capacity magazine one year later. At trial, the prosecutor tells the jury that you possessed an illegal magazine after the July 1st cutoff date and you must have acquired it after that date. Juries by default believe prosecutors and police witnesses. (They foolishly believe that the criminal justice system is a paragon of virtue which would never charge someone mistakenly, much less purposely charge an innocent person.) At that point, the jury then thinks that you illegally purchased the magazine after July 1st.
If you are in that situation, do you bet your future on blurting out to the jury, “But I am innocent until proven guilty and the prosecutor did not prove that I purchased that magazine after July 1st!”??? And you do realize, at that point, that the prosecutor will ask you to produce a receipt for that magazine showing that you purchased it before July 1st. Suddenly it is a crap-shoot whether or not the jury likes you or thinks you are credible and therefore not-guilty.
And don’t forget the other nasty side of our criminal justice system, “The process is the punishment.” A vindictive prosecutor who despises “others” (a disturbingly prevalent trait among Progressives) can charge you and go all the way to trial. Do you realize how much time you will miss from work/business and family, how many sleepless nights you will have, and the 10s of thousands of dollars you will spend on a defense attorney?
And if Washington says that acquiring magazines is a felony, you stand a very real possibility of losing your job/business as well as clientele and “friends” while your trial is pending. (Your friends and clientele, just like juries, foolishly believe that the criminal justice system is a paragon of virtue which would never charge someone mistakenly, much less purposely charge an innocent person.)
My reply to Jim Warren is based on working in the CA court system for 25 years. He is 100% correct. Just being arrested and having to post bail and hire a lawyer to enter a not guilty plea and have the FELONY case dismissed at preliminary hearing for lack of proof is costly enough. Plus having your name plastered through every news agency and social media program in the county will cure you of wanting to flout the law. It’s much safer to have 10 10-round mags than two 30 round mags. Chicken hearted? Perhaps. Sensibly aware of the pitfalls that exist in the dictatorships that exist on the left coast? Absolutely.
Unfortunately, some of us having decided as long ago as a half century to live in those dictatorships when they were still a part of the U.S. and observed the Constitution with its amendments are trapped by family circumstances and cannot vote with out feet.
jim,
at one time of day that was true,not today, today you DO! have to “prove” that you are innocent. don’t make the misstake that todays courts are yesterdays courts and lady justice is blind.
“at one time of day that was true,not today, today you DO! have to “prove” that you are innocent.”
Wonder about documents obtained under search warrants, and subpoenas? Can a person “take the fifth”, and refuse to comply? As in protecting the fact that a sales receipt/credit card entry shows the purchase to be after the contraband date? Or can a prosecutor declare you are hiding guilt by refusing to honor warrants/subpoenas?
Magpul date stamps their magazines. 🙁
“Magpul date stamps their magazines”
Did not know. Does Magpul make mags for pistols, or just ARs?
Magpul makes Glock mags, for sure.
They might make others, as well.
nothing a soldering iron wouldn’t obscure.
not a serial number.
You beat me to it. A quick touch of a soldering tip to the date dial, and Bob’s your uncle.
Mec-Gar doesn’t date their pistol magazines. At least not the ones I own. Neither does my original SIG mags for my P-228. I’ve got more on the way. Washington has a pistol registry, as far as original sale. My pistol has been on the books for over 30 years. Proof would be difficult for them.
there is NO LAW mandating that I keep receits for everything I purchase. HOW would they be able to prove I did not buy those for cash off a private seller’s table at a gun show in Kentucky three years ago? My lack of proof does not supply their proof of lawbreaking.
Now IF I were dumb enough to pay with a credit card, AND there was an itemised invoice showing everything I purchased, AND they somehow came up with that, I’d be cooked.
Iven if I use PayPal or Zelle to [ut the money into the seller’s hands, those only show a gross amount transferred, never an itemised list of what was purchased.
“there is NO LAW mandating that I keep receits for everything I purchase. HOW would they be able to prove I did not buy those for cash off a private seller’s table at a gun show in Kentucky three years ago? My lack of proof does not supply their proof of lawbreaking. ”
If I were a certain type of prosecutor, I would do everything possible to demonstrate to the jury that while receipts are not legally required to be produced, the resistance or lack of proof is indicative of a person determined to circumvent the law. In the end, our position doesn’t determine outcomes; the jury makes the decision.
Enforcement of mag bans is highly problematic, but mag bans attract votes, which is just as effective.
In ‘ol CA, they just assume its illegal unless you prove otherwise, and then they assume its illegal anyway and you can go hire an attorney on your dime to try and get your property back. And fyi, if you win, they’ll have long ago lost the property and you’ll need to hire that attorney back on your dime to sue the city for value of the property.
20-30k and the mag or the 50 bucks is yours.
Aint government great!
Kyle is exactly right. But there is a law in CA that when you sue a public entity and win, the public entity must pick up your attorney fees. That’s one reason why the 2nd Amendment Foundation makes it a practice to sue in CA. It keeps the attorney well paid. The City of San Jose just paid their lawyers $10,000 for a municipal regulation that exceeded their authority. The state is the only one allowed to make laws pertaining to firearms per state legislation. When cities make rules regarding firearms they automatically are null and void. There is an effort made in CA and other states with similar laws to rescind them and allow local municipalities to enact firearms regulating ordinances. That would create a nightmare for anyone possessing a firearm who wants to visit his mother in the town immediately adjacent. That’s the whole thrust of the movement. If such appears in your state, you should vigorously oppose it. You generally have the legislature on your side because they hate to give up any authority to anyone.
All that said, although you will eventually get back your lawyer’s fees, you still will be out the $10,000 for the duration that it takes for the city attorney to wake up and realize all the delaying is costing the city more and more money. Every phone call he gets from the client’s lawyer the cash register goes “ka-ching!” and the fee goes up another $100 (or more)
You still will have an arrest record and have lost your standard cap magazine although you will get the approximate cost of same and can purchase 2 10-round mags to replace it (maybe because the cost is probably higher now). Plus lost time from work, very unfavorable public shaming, maybe even lost your job due to time off to go appear in court, certainly diminished time on the job and unless you have a very pro 2nd Amendment boss, concomitant loss of pay for which you will not be reimbursed.
That still won’t prevent you from being arrested, having your car and premises searched while terrifying any relatives living with you and, perhaps, having one or more relatives also charged with the crime for living in the house where such illegal devices are maintained, having to be booked, fingerprinted, ID photo taken, make bail, hire a lawyer only to have the charges dismissed. Think that can’t happen? If you do, you must have arrived recently from another planet where justice is more important than career arrest records and legal harassment by supposedly judicial officers who had their fingers crossed when they took the oath of office to support the Constitution of the United States. I worked in the CA court system for 25 years. I know what goes on.
Did you read about a recent case involving a young man named Rittenhouse? Let me give you a quick example. Rittenhouse was charged with two counts of felony murder conviction of which called for a mandatory life sentence. He was also charged with violating curfew. I don’t know what the status of violating curfew is Wisconsin but I suspect it is akin to a parking violation. Even if it is a misdemeanor level “crime” the punishment is most likely a fine.
The practice of searching through the law books for any and all criminal violations is called “Let’s throw enough zhit against the wall, something is bound to stick.” It is done to make the defendant look like some kind of felonious career criminal to the jurors. It is considered a low grade maneuver done by a slimy prosecutor only interested in his career conviction record. It hasn’t been addressed by the Federal Supremes yet, although I don’t know why.
What is the judge going to do if Rittenhouse had been convicted of all counts? He already would have two life sentences adjudged. Is the judge going to order he serve three days after he expires in prison? Is he going to order that Rittenhouse pay a fine? Will he hold Rittenhouse in contempt of court because he can’t pay the fine due to being in prison? You see what I mean about a slime ball approach to prosecution?
Fortunately for Mr. Rittenhouse, the jury saw through all the slimy tactics of the cheap azzz prosecutor and voted UNANIMOUSLY to acquit him.
There were so many slime ball tactics used by the prosecuting attorney that make the complete list too long to list here. It wasn’t a search for justice, it was a malicious prosecution and the prosecuting attorney in my opinion should be censored by the Wisconsin Bar Association and have his license suspended for six months.
So just remember kids, you can’t do any carnage with a 10 round magazine, just with a 20, 30, etc. Remember that, and you will understand, and it all will make perfect sense.
Didn’t the shooter at Stoneman Douglas HS use 10 round magazines because they fit better into his bag?
Oops.
Always wondered about obliterating the date code on the pmags. It wouldn’t affect the function. I guess it would show intent unless you make it look like wear and tear. One reason I like my metal mags, no date code.
A lot of metal magazines have date codes. It could be on the floorplate, or it may be in the form of something that doesn’t look like a date.
Sadly it’s just for quality control really. Even a serial number could be matched to a date range.
Because…passing another ineffective anti gun law on top of the already existing anti gun laws is so much easier than actually doing something to control the relatively small number of criminal repeat offenders responsible for most of the violence in this Country…
I read somewhere that a cop or DA in Chicago said that approximately 70 percent of the violent crimes perpetrated in Chicago were done by the same 250 or so criminals. Not sure where they got their numbers or if they were even accurate but with the revolving door justice system it seems plausible.
I read that one, too. Seemed a credible source and good information.
I did read of a certain handgun, being used in a series of nearly fifty shootings throughout Chicago over a period of about three years. They had ballistics work to prove it was the same handgun, but could not LOCATE that gun. It seemed to be used in one area for a season,, then lay ow, then turn up in another part of town,s same gun for sure. Finally they came across a handgun left at the scene of yet one more shooting. Ballistics proved that iwa the one gun. It had been stolen from a gun shop in another state, no trace of it before it started showing up on Chicagos streets. I think the toll was 42 different crimes perpetrataed involving that one handgun, over two and a half years. Time from theft was just over three years.
Mustabin one o fthose “evil” guns, wandering about the city randomly standing up and shootng at people, killing and wounding them at random. Still had the serial numbers all intact and undamaged, I cannot understand WHY they couldn’t just trace it and go get it, ending its long career of mayhem. Silly people anyway………. I mean they KNEW which one it was after it got stolen…….. what kept them from just rounding it up and capturing it? WOUld have prevented a lot of death and injury
Its never been about the guns, its only about the control.
They couldn’t care less about criminals. Its only about getting the regular citizen disarmed.
hotcakes
theyre going to sell like hotcakes
everybody that has 1 will buy 10
and everybody that has 10 will buy 20
washington will end up with more of them in circulation than if they hadnt banned them
The upside to increased quantities by an increased amount of people is that it becomes easier to argue they’re in “common use” (Heller, 2008).
You get what you vote for,
Oregone will be next.
Just like Seattle runs Wash. state, Portland runs the pitiful state of Oregone.
The whole west coast is run by a super majority of Dems. The people are truly screwed.
no wedid NOT get what WE voted for. We got what THEY counted for. Do not be fooled. Washington have had this problem ever since Queen Christine “won” the thired “recount” just AFTER three cartons of “lost” mail were “discovered” on a high shelf in a back room of a seattle Post Office weeks AFTER the election.. and the dirty judge declared they should be counted. Meanwhile, several totes of military overseas absentee ballots came in a few days after election day, postmakred two weeks prior to the electioin day over in the sandbox. Another judge declared they were “late” and thus could NOT be counted. We KNOW how servicemen vote in this state. And so did the Queen…….. and likley the :judge”.
That kind of crap has to stop! Overseas ballots were postmarked. There is no reason not to accept them and every reason to refuse the others
No pompous jackazz has the right to dictate to another how many rounds they can have to defend you and yours. In other words mr. Gun Control governor ratbassturd…If you’ll be there with your taxpayer funded armed security to jump between my family and and some home invading dirtbags then you might have something to say…Until that day happens you pathetic self serving pompous pos you and your ilk can go pound sand. Please excuse my French.
what the retailsers SHOULD be doing is bringing in tonnes of standard cap mags now…. because continued sales of them are elgal right up to one July. y guess is any retailer who still has any in that last week or two will clean them all out at his own named price. But such dealers will be gentlemen aobut it, and continue to offer them at normal price until the quick ones grab them all. My kind of “gun grab” event.
Curious…where are you located, Tionico? I’ve noticed that the grammar & spelling you use (both here on TTAG and other sites I’ve seen you at) is not congruent with American English.
More and more states are banning high capacity mags and all blessed by the gun hating courts including the stab in the back Conservative Judges. The Supreme Court will not touch this one.
fake Dacian post Its obvious because of it idiocy.
And pray, tell, how will this prevent crime? It will not. This will be deemed unconstitutional, there are lawyers waiting in line to dispute this legislation. It makes your property, illegal to sell. this will not pass muster.
“Makes your property illegal to sell.”
Imagine if the liberal voter was informed that possession of [fill in drug name] was legal, but illegal to buy, sell, manufacturer, or import. You would have a bunch of addicts CHOPing off entire neighborhoods in WA.
“Makes your property illegal to sell.”
Imagine if the liberal voter was informed that possession of [fill in drug name] was legal, but illegal to buy, sell, manufacturer, or import. You would have a bunch of addicts CHOPing off entire neighborhoods in WA.
“And pray, tell, how will this prevent crime? It will not.”
Oh, yes it will; yes it will. It will. It surely will.
You have to apply the “reasonable person” standard, here. A reasonable person could only kill ten people before needing to change magazines. A reasonable person would be amped up with thrill, losing control of fine motor skills, fumbling the mag swap, spilling bullets everywhere, scrambling around for yet another magazine, or trying to find all the loose ammo and put it back in the magazine, which after the thrill and frustration will not be easily done, and everyone can run away in the time between the tenth bullet, and the weapon reload. It also allows time for police SWAT team to show up and isolate the shooter.
All those lives who ran away while the shooter was occupied with a mag swap will be saved. Even if it is only one, the magazine restriction is worth it. Eventually, it will be so difficult to own guns, the law abiding gun owners will just put away their firearms, and violent crime will be reduced to single digits, everywhere. How can that be bad?
What’s a standard capacity magazine?
Used to be 20 for us and 30 for them.
There is another alternative. Perhaps it’s time to just leave seattle behind. Break away and form another state???
https://libertystate.org/
“Congressman Discusses Repealing NFA, Abolishing ATF, [ and National Divorce]”
time stamp @ 19 min for Nationa Divorce talk. Total video time is 21 min. long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCcr5uTxijk&t=37s
I have been buying two mags every payday. I consider this my gun tax. Also have buying the old metal gov’t surplus 20 round mags in bulk. As far as the mentality that a ten round mag will make it harder to reload a mag into a sporting rifle like an AR15 is ridiculous. The ten round mag is smaller and lighter, easier to handle and make reloads faster. This magazine restriction will have absolutely no effect on the reduction in crime. It is a foot in the door to start gun restriction and confiscation. Don’t think this will pass constitutional muster.
3d printer go brr
go ahead; carbon date my shit.
Colorado instituted Magazine Capacity Limits in 2013 when former Governor (now USvSenator) John Lickshispooper (Hickenlooper) signed the Legislation into law, in spite of significant pushback by the 2A community, including the recall of three State’s Representatives. There is no Sunset Provision for Grandfathered Magazines.
I, like several others I know, purchased a number of Standard Capacity Magazines prior to the Legislation becoming Law (36 magazines and I didn’t own an AR yet).
I can still walk onto most local gun stores, and request a Magazine Rebuild Kit, and the clerk will go in back or reach under the counter, pull out a Magazine, take it apart, put it back in its bag, and sell it to me. Only Denver LE and some surrounding departments work to enforce the ban. Our local Sheriff doesn’t as he believes it’s a Stupid, Worthless and Unenforceable Law. Nothing in the Law to prevent me from going to Kansas or Wyoming and buying Standard Cap Mags there either.
My only complaint is I miss out on the really cheap online Magazine deals.
Comments are closed.