Every time there’s a mass shooting in America, we hear the same tired arguments brought forth against individual gun rights. We’re told that other, more civilized countries have lower rates of civilian firearms ownership and stricter gun control laws, and that this must be the reason there are fewer mass shootings outside the United States.
President Biden made this exact argument in his speech last night following yesterday’s school shooting in Uvalde, Texas.
This way of thinking is an often-used logical fallacy, known as cum hoc ergo propter hoc (or, ‘with this, therefore because of this’). It’s more well known by a phrase that serves at its antidote: correlation does not imply causation.
There are many ways that correlation and causality don’t align. The most common flaw happens when the correlation is merely coincidental, and one thing has no relationship whatsoever with the other.
Almost as common are situations in which a third factor is the driving force behind the two data points that correlate, such as the correlation between shark attacks and ice cream sales (ice cream and swimming, or going where the sharks are, are both more popular when it’s hot out).
On the gun issue, appeals to correlation are like claiming that ice cream sales cause shark attacks. If we could just ban or heavily regulate the sale of ice cream, we’d be doing something to reduce deadly shark attacks, right?
But merely pointing out that your opponents don’t have proof that one thing causes another isn’t good enough on its own. If we rely solely on the absurdity of their argument, we’re just inviting them to fabricate data or use other fallacies against us in the debate. In other words, they’ll try to build a false linkage between gun ownership and mass shootings.
Fortunately, recent history gives us a fairly solid case against any causal relationship between gun availability and mass shootings, and we don’t even have to point to Mexico as an example of gun control not working (the gun control industry usually uses bad data to blame us for that, too, but that’s another story).
3D Printing Already Made Gun Availability Universal
While many European and Asian countries have strict gun control laws, it has been at least two years since they’ve been worth anything more than the paper they’re written on. Why? Because the FGC-9, a gun that anyone can build at home with unregulated parts — even in Europe — was released.
The FGC-9 was, in fact, designed and built by a European and it has been extensively test-fired (with ammunition which can also be built at home from readily available components).
Police in the Netherlands say they've seized as many as 14 FGC-9 3D printed guns in the country this year alone. https://t.co/ngYaDwbUva
— Jake Hanrahan (@Jake_Hanrahan) May 24, 2022
If gun availability was the cause of mass shootings, then we should expect to have seen a rise in shootings in Europe, right? But, after extensive searching, I couldn’t find any data, even anecdotal, to show any increase in firearms deaths in Europe over this period, let alone mass shootings.
I know one counterargument is going to be that while guns are technically available now in Europe, they’re still a lot easier to obtain in the United States. True enough. If you want a semi-auto 9mm carbine in most European countries, and you don’t want it to be securely stored at a gun range, you’ll either have to turn to the black market or build your own. Neither of those options are nearly as easy as going to your local gun shop just about anywhere in America.
However, looking at the history of mass shootings show that most of them aren’t impulsive. Far from it. The mass shooters radicalize over years, and then spend months or years planning their terror attacks. The Buffalo shooter wrote a 180-page manifesto, and that’s short compared to other shooters like Anders Breivik (a European), who put together a 1,500 page “compendium.” These killers who wrote manifestos, and many others who didn’t, took a lot of time preparing, learning skills, and obtaining equipment.
In other words, these kinds of highly-prepared shooters should be popping up more in every country now, even if the more impulsive mass shooters are still kept from obtaining firearms. But, it’s been years, now, that homemade guns are available to just about anyone and we just aren’t seeing that globally.
We know that it isn’t because people aren’t building FGC-9 weapons, as we’ve seen them pop up in the news in Netherlands, Burma, Northern Ireland, among many other places you can find with a quick Google search. Imagine how many more of them haven’t been made public.
The reality is that people can get guns almost anywhere now, but they’re building them and not using them for mass shootings…just like nearly all American gun owners.
Unanswered Questions
I know this won’t make American exceptionalists and others like them happy, but it’s time we admit that there are other factors that causing these mass shootings to occur in the United States with higher frequencies than in other countries. Availability of firearms clearly isn’t the big factor the anti-gun crowd claims and wants it to be. Something else is the cause, or a whole lot of something elses.
Whatever the root causes may be (I have my hypotheses, as you probably do, too), they’re likely not something that government can fix by passing more laws. We’re probably going to have to roll up our sleeves, stow our egos, and embrace the suck to fix the root causes of these horrific actions.
‘Civilized nations’ is how the racists justified colonizing a huge swath of the world. ‘Civilized nations’ is a see through code for white, christian countries.
These people are so transparent.
Nothing to worry about, no laws will change. Just move along.
How about “Western civilization”. That work for you snowflake? Proven superior in application to that came before. Without it the world would still be infested with do-nothing tribes living in mud/skin huts.
Initial demonstration being how to make war “properly” followed by civilizing (much driven by wives/women and Christian/Catholic religion) and construction/building. And don’t give me any BS about what the Han chinese.
Shut the fuck up Trail of Tears
Believe it or not, even he’s not that stupid, he just hopes you are!
Dennis,
Not so quick, chief . . . both are possible. He IS that stupid. But, no, I don’t think even he believes his own BS. “Does your @$$hole ever get jealous of the s*** that comes outta your mouth??”
Show me another 1st World country that has 350+ million heterogeneous people (ie, a melting pot) with 3000 miles+ of open borders. Until you can, comparisons to what can and does happen, based on laws, is irrelevant.
Well 250million + 100m that should be heading back to the cesspool from which they came. There they can reproduce what we (nonprogs) showed them.
How can such a Demonic lying man even invoke the name of God?…
Lets all pretend we are taliban…Then he will give us all of American’s finest weapons…
You are the Taliban. Just the Christian form of it. You want the exact same thing, just from the Christian perspective.
maybe that makes sense on reddit
No, not even on Reddit. It sounds like it may be our nameless, brainless, d***less troll.
My beloved Pestident Joseph Robinett Biden did a real good job arming the Taliban.
Many countries are envious of our great Pestident, they all wish they had a diaper filling, child diddling, hair sniffing, country destroying, senile pestident like the United States of America has.
We’re lucky!
So true.
It was too expensive to put fuel (that was already there) into Blackhawk helis to fly them out, yet we can send insane amounts of $s to Ukraine. 🤔
And before doing that, we spent billions building the country’s infrastructure for them. Ukraine is the new hotness. How are we supposed to build it back better if it isn’t first destroyed? It’s a wonderful opportunity for a select few insiders to get wicked rich, at our expense of course.
“Joseph Robinett Biden did a real good job arming the Taliban“
How exactly did Joe Biden arm the Taliban?
Are you speaking of the agreement president Donald Trump negotiated with the terrorist Taliban to leave US weapons in Afghanistan as part of the deal?
So joe was an enabler to that meanie Trump? No president in the history of the US has looked at a deal or treaty and said, no, that ain’t right?
I know I know jwm,
That was a lame attempt at propaganda even for my woefully lecherous low standards.
The only tool a malodorous slut like me has is an attempt to spin the truth.
You caught me, so here is the real truth;
“…Everything changed when the new commander in chief declared that US forces would leave Afghanistan by Sept. 11, 2021, pushing back the Trump administration’s timetable by four months. Crucially, he didn’t condition the withdrawal on continued adherence to the agreed-upon stipulations. It would be an unconditional pullout with an arbitrary date based on pure symbolism — and set in stone.
At that point, the Taliban sat back and waited for the date to draw near, then launched a countrywide offensive, knowing they had no reason to fear any reprisals from this administration. The ongoing chaos — not least the stranding of US personnel and allies — was the natural result of the Biden administration’s decision to eschew a conditions-based plan.”
https://nypost.com/2021/08/19/i-ran-trumps-afghan-withdrawal-bidens-attempt-to-blame-us-is-sad/
Also;
https://americanmilitarynews.com/2022/02/biden-abandoned-as-many-as-9000-americans-in-afghanistan-new-report-shows/
Come on fake Miner you can at least try.
I tried, I lied, so I came clean.
Read the truth above ^^
Simple: Joe decided “today is the day” and he cut and ran. There was no plan to the withdrawal. Withdrawing from Afghanistan was no less a fiasco than the “withdrawal” from Vietnam. Had there been an orderly retreat, weapons could have been shipped elsewhere, or destroyed, as the situation dictated.
The blame doesn’t all go on Joe, of course. Senior military leaders should have been prepared, but they weren’t. The cabinet should have had ideas, but they didn’t. Congress should have been asking questions, but they weren’t.
Instead, we cut and ran, leaving all that hardware to be captured by the Taliban. Not to mention, leaving behind personnel who were certain to be rounded up and executed by the Taliban.
The “senior military leaders” that should have been prepared and were not SHOULD be busted down to buck private and mustered out of the force. No consequences for abject failure to do their duty? What kind of military ARE we running these days, anyway?
Quote: How exactly did Joe Biden arm the Taliban?
Answer: Biden changed the withdrawal date, pushing back by six months. During that extra six months, zero troops, weapons, or equipment was pulled out of the country. The Taliban OTOH, used those six months to convince all the regional powers that the US wouldn’t keep their word (and they’re right, Biden didn’t) and that their national government was a US puppet who wouldn’t push back when the US broke their word.
Quote: Are you speaking of the agreement president Donald Trump negotiated with the terrorist Taliban to leave US weapons in Afghanistan as part of the deal?
Reply: You…. have a source for this claim? I looked and I can’t see anything find a single source, much less a credible source for this.
Also, Biden was willing to break the agreement Trump made about the timeline, but you’re claiming Biden couldn’t break an agreement for weapons? Make that make sense for me.
Remember that time the Puppet lied and threw the military under the bus? What happened to all of those people that were upset by the debunked story from an anonymous source saying Trump was bashing the military? Crickets! You’re all hypocrites.
“So no one told — your military advisers did not tell you, ‘No, we should just keep 2,500 troops. It’s been a stable situation for the last several years. We can do that. We can continue to do that’?” pressed George Stephanopoulos.
“No,” Biden said. “No one said that to me that I can recall.”
“I recommended we keep 2,500 troops in Afghanistan,” McKenzie, the commander of the U.S. Central Command, told the Senate Armed Services Committee. “Withdrawal of those forces would lead inevitably to the collapse of the Afghan military forces and eventually, the Afghan government.”
Who was the Commander-in-chief again? Hint: It wasn’t Trump.
“Things aren’t going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban,” Biden told President Ashraf Ghani in late July. “And there’s a need, WHETHER IT IS TRUE OR NOT, there is a need to project a different picture.”
Whiner always brings the funny.
https://youtu.be/2q35PgSXhKg
Minor MINER49er Are you kidding me? How about all the arms, helicopters, APC, etc that were left behind not with the Afghan Army but just left behind?
Get a grip!
I think the absence of father or males takes a toll on teenage boys.
I grew up with a strong male father influence, we called him Daddy
Also Uncles and Grand parents
Aunts and Uncles
Welfare destroyed the family
Growing up rifle were for putting food on the table, not for murdering people.
Our President doesn’t understand the purpose of the NRA
When I heard that this kid lived with his Grandmother, thought was, that can’t be good!
You’re on to something there for sure. Something changed, and it had nothing to do with guns.
grandma probably threatened to cut off his cell phone….a fate worse than death for most teens….
MAYBE she actually expected him to take out the trash once in a blue moon. How tragic that one such as HIMSELF could be put upon to perform such a menial task……… pore BAY bee.
Texas Lady for the win!
The systematic breakdown of the family and traditional values is THE primary cause of the spree killer epidemic.
Fact: firearms were far more readily available 65 years ago and spree killers were unheard of. Conclusion: something other than firearms being readily available is responsible for the rash of spree killers in recent history.
(Note: 65 years ago anyone could go to any store and purchase firearms–there were no background checks. Similarly, anyone could pay for firearms through the mail and have them delivered to their home, again without background checks.)
Yup. Forty years ago I hopped into my trusty old Volvo one afternoon, drove it ACROSS STATE LINES, walked into a sporting goods store, pointed to the rifle up on a display stand, and said I want to buy that rifle. He said fine, and went into the back to get one still factory sealed in its box. Price was $79.95. I laid four pictures of Mr. Jackson on the counter, he clanked and clunked on the cash register, whcih made some noises and dinged bell, the cash drawer popped open and he put the formerly my picturs of Mr. Jackson in a bin, and pulled back out one nickel, He then closed the drawer, the machine spit out a tiny slip of paper as it rang a few more bells, he put the small paper along with the nickel (made of REAL nickel metal…. imagine that?) on top of the box containing my new rifle, thanked me nd bid me good day. I put the nickel in my pocket along with the tiny piece of paper. When I looked at it, it said someone purchased some item for $79.95, but no name, no indication of what it was.
I then climbed back into the old grey Volvo and drove BACK across state lines to home, two days later loaned it to a friend who ws having trouble with critters getting after his ducks. He used MY rifle, newly purchased, to kill varmints. Mostly possum and coon. Eventuall he must have either shot or scared off whatever i twas, cause I “borrowed” MY rifle back a couple weeks later Next morning I fired it for the first time.. out my bedroom window at the coyote that was trying to eat my geese. Drilled him a new third eye just above nis nose and dead centre. I guess it was pretty well sighted in.
Today I would go to prison for at least three of the things I did that day and again for firing from inside an occupied dwelling.
Still have that rifle, and Uncle has NO CLUE I do. He had not started keeping his universal gun registry yet. You know, the one he is forbidden to keep?
Times change.
It too bad that the economy has both mom and pop working to make ends meet. We was poor but mom was always home and dads single job kept the household operating. That’s kinda hard to do knowa days, one of my son’s is giving it a shot but hes broke all the time. I told him “I think its better to be broke and have mom around to watch the kids instead of a babysitter or a school.”
WW2 and we’ve not slowed down yet.
I like how “universal background checks” has become the go-to rally cry.
Because everybody should be forced to go through one just like the killer yesterday did….and passed.
Because all the Dawayanstons and Leroyishas selling stolen guns out of their trap houses are going to call up the feds for a quick check on their buyers.
Children are being intentionally being targeted in this country and the first thing these jabronies do is blame their political opponents and civil rights. Blaming the other side for tragedies like this is how this happened and how its going to continue to happen.
Protect these children the same way government facilities are protected or close them all and resort to homeschooling; its very clear the gov/politicains do not value the life of your child.
Gun rights/politics/laws are not to blame, its government negligence and the culture of immoral violence, narcissism, and the end result of our moral degredation.
If I was guaranteed that no other child would be gun downed if I were to surrender all my weapons, I’ll do it. However, I live in reality and guns, regardless of how you feel about them, are here to stay.
Keep in mind the only problem they’re interested in solving is more power.
You would give up your guns if it guaranteed not a single kid would ever get shot again? Children would still be shot, it would just be the government killing them with one method or another. You’re a fool. I wouldn’t give up my guns if it would cure cancer for everyone.
Its also abduntly clear that you didn’t read the last sentence or understand the basic concept of empathy and, at the same time, be steadfast in your beliefs and rights.
And thats fine too. You made it this far in life without doing so.
The school board doesn’t think the chain link fences, armed guards and locked door make the schools appearance appealing to the public.
Can anyone remember (and cite a few details) about any school shooting ever at a PRIVATE school, or a home school, anywhere, ever? I cannot recall one anywhere.
Perhaps one solid reason might be that private schools are not bound by the federal Certified Defensless Victim Zone Act, er, squeeze me, Gun Free School Zone act?
MAYBE one answer to gummit skewl shootins might be to have every adult in the place be armed and trained, and carryong concealed upon their person their own handguun they carry with themselves everywhere else they go, but just now also at school. They tried this in Ohio, and it works far better than anyone imagined.
Tionico,
Been a couple of Jewish schools shot up in LA (been a few years since the last one). I’ve heard of instances of other religious schools being shot up, but no details. I don’t think private schools are exempt, I just think they’re generally not as ‘high profile’. And after the first one in LA, all the Jewish schools amped up security pretty substantially. Jews may trend liberal, but due to their history, they know which end wags and which end bites.
Commit Check…
Reason for the above commit check is because of my replies enduring senseless moderation and being tossed. Must be the ministry of truth cannot handle hearing the truth.
The matrix doesn’t read sentences, it’s certain words that trigger the moderation.
However,,,,,,I really think it’s the elf bee eyes an n essay hacking our sht. That’s what I think it is, and now DebbieW, you too are on “The List”
LETS GO BRANDON
Put him in a race car with a stuck throttle and no brakes.
Let’s Go Brandon
Whenever I hear “Only in this country…”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/time.com/5630227/japan-history-mass-violence/%3famp=true
Thank goodness Japan banned samurai swords.
Sarah’s gas, whew, that will make yah sick or die.
“it’s time we admit that there are other factors”
Decades ago, anyone could go buy a semi-auto rifle without a background check. Full auto was available with the proper tax. So it isn’t a gun problem. It’s a culture problem.
most of us grew up with some religious training….and a defined sense of right and wrong…wonder if this kid did?
There is a strong correlation between the date of US deinstitutionalization, roughly 1965, of the mentally ill and the number of actual mass-shooting/active shooter events. I strongly suspect there is also a strong causation there too. You could also add strong correlation with the availability of pornography (which is dehumanizing to a pubescent mind). You could add a strong corellation with the availability of no-fault divorce. Add number of fatherless sons.
What doesnt correlate is number/popularity of AR15s or the “assault weapon” ban.
I lay the culture of death directly at the feet of Harry Blackmun and the judges of SCOTUS that imposed Roe v Wade on us. Life is now valueless. Couple that to the so called “great society” act of 65 that destroyed minority nuclear families and you have the perfect mix for this sort of thing. I grieve with the families of Buffalo and Uvalde but also for the 63 MILLION children aborted for the convenience of the murdering women.
This is something I have thought about a lot. Semi-automatic detachable magazine hand guns and weapons like the AR-15 have been available going back to the 60s. I believe Tommy guns and AK-47s have also been available for a long time. The AR-15 didn’t really start to gain popularity until the 1990s, but it was available before then for those who wanted one, such as a mass shooter. But yet mass shootings were far less. Personally I think part of the problem is that now with the 24/7 news cycle and the Internet and social media, it is far more easy to become famous as a mass shooter. You can write a “manifesto” and everyone can read it, whereas in the old days, it might never reach anybody. In addition, we have the weakening of the mental health system in certain ways, and also just something seems to have changed culturally in terms of the behaviors of a lot of people. I don’t really know what the whole cause is, but I think it is a lot more complex than just the availability of weapons like AR’s, as those have been around for a long time.
Ignoring the social causes though, I do believe we could put a stop to these shootings were a complete ban on all semiautomatic firearms with detachable magazines period. The problem is that this would infringe heavily on the right to possess arms to check the power of the State itself, and also the gun controllers would never stop. They’d continually seek more and more restrictive gun control measures. Also it would not address the root causes. If people start using pressure cookers to build bombs, banning pressure cookers might stop the bomb building, but it would ignore the issue of why are people building them now in the first place.
Given the lies and distortions the Gun Control Lobby has engaged in for so many years, and the outright power mad, statist behavior of so many governors and governments of other so-called free countries during the pandemic, said governors and mayors having their law enforcement and National Guards do nothing during the George Floyd riots, and just the overall general craziness of our current times (pandemic, civil unrest, war, economic uncertainty, possible economic crash coming, natural disasters, etc…) I am very reluctant to agree to giving up my right to arms.
Kyle,
The M1 carbine, which has all those features, was introduced in 1941. Magazine-fed, semi-automatic firearms go back well before WW2. Your point is valid, you’re just being too generous about the ubiquity and age of the whole “mag-fed semi-auto” concept.
AR-15’s cost a lot more back then…and because of that most people didn’t feel the need for one….even so, there was talk of placing them under the NFA during the Reagan administration….and their sale was actually restricted through legislation during the Clinton administration…when that expired and movies and video games began to feature them the interest picked up and sales began to climb…add in people returning from the service who had experience with this type of weapon and the numbers soared…..
quote——————Sorry, Joe, But Gun Control Laws Aren’t Preventing Mass Shootings In Other Countries————quote
Right wing propaganda. Most mass shootings are rare in foreign countries and most of the time its an act of war by another country who trained and supplied the terrorists. No gun control act can prevent another nation from making war on you. The infamous French Night Club massacre was one such example of terrorists being trained and supplied by a Middle Eastern Country.
Yes in New Zealand they did have one lone terrorist nut case commit mass murder and they did something about it by passing draconian gun legislation and the same thing happened in Norway. After the Norway incident they changed the gun laws. Do either of these countries still have mass murder every other day????? Hell no!!!!!!!! They do not, so it proves that yes gun laws do indeed work much better than having no laws at all. And ditto for Australia that has had decades now pass since a lone gunman killed 50 some people. Proof again the gun laws work. No they are not perfect but to have no laws is totally insane.
“In the cases of both the number of incidents and the total body count, on an average annual basis, both increased instead of going down. Perhaps not by much, but clearly in the wrong direction.
“To summarize: the laws did not reduce homicides (more than the established downward trend) or mass homicides (which actually increased) and may have encouraged other violent crimes.”
https://www.gunfacts.info/blog/auditing-australia/
The number of people slain in mass shootings of this type is roughly the same as the number of accidental deaths from gun shots on an annual basis, and both numbers are a very small fraction of the total number of gang related homicides, constituting roughly 80% of all gun deaths. Black teens and children are being killed every day/ Where is the outcry? Where is the massive publicity and the search for the “cause” of the outburst of violence?
Exactly. No one sheds a tear for young victims of the killing fields some of our inner cities have become.
Australian Shootings SINCE the 1996 ban:
– 28 APR 96, Port Arthur, 35 dead 24 wounded, AR-15 (caused ban)
– 28 JUN 97, Adelaide, 3 dead 2 wounded, pistols
– 21 OCT 02, Melbourne, 2 dead 5 wounded, six pistols
– 15 SEP 03, New South Wales, 4 dead, .303 rifle
– 20 MAR 05, New South Wales, 4 dead, rifle
– 29 APR 11, Hectorville, 3 dead 3 wounded, shotgun
– 09 SEP 14, South Wales, 5 dead, shot gun
– 23 OCT 14, Victoria, 3 dead, rifles
– 15 DEC 14, New South Wales, 3 dead 1 wounded, shotgun
– 02 OCT 15, New South Wales, 2 dead, S&W revolver
– 04 Jan 16, South Australia, 3 dead, rifle
– 05 JUN 17, Melbourne, 2 dead 3 wounded, shotgun
– 11 MAY 18, Osmington, 7 dead, rifles
– 05 JUL 18, New South Wales, 3 dead, rifles
– 04 JUN 19, Darwin, 4 dead 1 wounded, shotgun
– 14 APR 19, Melbourne, 2 dead 4 wounded, pistol
And that’s only up to year 2000.
to Klingon
You proved my point all except the first were only a couple of people compared to the mass body count in American tragedies with assault rifles.
Woe to they who call propaganda truth, and truth propaganda.
dacian, the 74 year old man who gets his jollies by” toying with people’s minds”
Said it himself he did.
Once again, dacian the stupid, you are a lying liar who lies. Why do you lie, dacian the stupid??? Oh, because reality messes up your pretty narrative.
Read it and weep, dacian the stupid and demented:
https://www.gvpedia.org/gun-myths/americans-do-not-have/
https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-that-the-us-leads-the-world-in-mass-shootings/
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3289010
Will you EVER stop being a lying liar, dacian the stupid and insane???
Just go fornicate yourself with a barb wire wrapped Louisville Slugger, lubricated with battery acid and habanero juice. But, then . . . you’d enjoy that, wouldn’t you, you pathetic f***??
dacian, the Dunderhead. OK, tell us ONE mass shooting that was prevented by your draconian gun laws? Just one!
Excuse me but what is an “assault rifle” “assault weapon”? For your edification, there is NO SUCH THING!
An AR-15 is NOT an “assault rifle”. It is a semi-automatic rifle.
my bet is on Europe will have a wave of school mass shooting in about 10 to 20 years….all started by letting wave after wave of the 3rd world shit hole and a shit ton of muslims
Europe just has to catch up and it will at a fast pace….they already have mass attacks with trucks and now with 3D printing it will switch to guns and none of the laws will stop it and only made defenseless targets everywhere
Just like the US being right next door to mexico and a dozen other 3rd world shit holes…how many deaths have been caused by latino gangs that should have never happened if the border was a BORDER?
It’s not about safety it’s about removing guns and rights. Overall violent crime is lower in USA over others. Criminals find a way to do what they please, look at Britan and their acid attacks by the thousands and knife slashers by the tens of thousands.
I still remember a really good detailed “white paper” report after Sandy Hook, many pages long, on safeguarding schools through physical security improvements and much better screening and early intervention for troubled kids. Input from teachers, psychologists, and senior law enforcement experts. Problem was, it mentioned that arming teachers, with extensive training, was an option for some districts to consider, on a wholly voluntary basis. And it was sponsored by the NRA.
Really good study on the subject and it went nowhere thanks to the left and the media framing it as the NRA wanting to “force” teachers to carry guns in classrooms.
Apparently this kid had warning signs going back years and easily could have been flagged and helped years ago.
But no.
So if teachers were NOT forced to arm themselves. How does one identify mad fools like this kid anyway. Easier said than done I’d say Can you imagine the Army of such ‘experts’ it would need? And those ‘experts’ do not groww onn blood trees they require years of training and sonn enoughn they would outnumber allm other members of the EDUCATIONAL COMMUNITY. This can be compared with VLADIMIR PUTIN and his 15 thousand tanks The trouble there is the 2/3 of them are at best badly mothballed and to bring them into service would require over 100,000 trained MECANICS, Suppliers, and crewmen [for every member of a tank crew there are between five and ten operational personell in the back chain. And just sitting there are some infantry with Javelin and Drones waiting to knock ’em off. If you think that Javelin is creating havoc just wait until those drones become BRIMSTONE compliant especiall the anti-ship variant’
I’m putting bets on here that in due course the UKRAINIANS will make a break for the coast and cut off MARIPUOL and the Russian’s Western Forces just as soon as it can neutralise the possibility of mobile Russian SEA BORNE ARTILLERY. So far the actual UKraine Military has not nearly been used to it’s potential.
“So if teachers were NOT forced to arm themselves.”
They’re not.
Why Albert Hall, if you ain’t one backtreading son of a beetch if I’ve ever met one.
A few post back you was bashing the USA for not having proper medical care n sht.
Now your saying it’s not possible?
WTF
ever see the movie “Teachers”?…I can assure you some teachers armed themselves…they just didn’t talk about it…remember getting a new desk in September that had previously belonged to the basketball coach who quit and moved on…janitor told me they found a .38 snubbie in one of the drawers….
So esxactly WHAT is the FCG9 made of?? Barrels still have to be made of stell and ammunitiuon still has to have csaes powder and projectile. The lack of or poor manufacturing process of any of these things renders any firearm very dangerous indeed. As for mass shootings in Europe including the UK you are unfortuneately correct in that they have indeed occured but the point is HOW MANY TIMES??? .
Apart from TERRORIST Incidents, those carried out by National Security Forces and WAR about which we cannot by their nature easily control, as far as I can ascertain there have been only about SIX or SEVEN across the entire continent and that covers [not including the old USSR which remained so secretive anyway] over twenty sovereign natiion in the last half Century. In Ukraine they are being carried out on an almost HOURLY basis by invading Russians and the fact that almost ALL the UKRAINIAN population that can handle a firearm is licensed to kill as many Russians as they can has made not the slightest differe4nce to the hourly killing of Ukrainin civilians NOT THE SLIGHTEST DIFFERENCE To compare those exceedingly small numbers with the almost weekly incidents in the. To compare trhat withn the almost weekly mass shootings [those involving three or more victims] USA is pretty damned naive to say the least.
To think that the Arming of basically untrained and undisciplined Civilians armed with a motley of firearms would have much effect of an invading power or come to that against the USA’s own well trained Military.
By now the US Authorities of whatever political persuasion will have details of every potential Gun Freak willing to take up arms against the State. No political party from whichever end of the political spectrum can or could afford to allow such an armeed takeover and the resulting CIVIL WAR. As they say the First Victims of any Revolution are those that aided it in the first place. You can therefore rest assured that if those gunfreaks DID take over they would be the first to be put against the nearest wall if they did not surrender firearms and PDQ at that because they are also the first to become DISILLUSIONED by the new reality
“To think that the Arming of basically untrained and undisciplined Civilians armed with a motley of firearms would have much effect of an invading power … ”
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the reason that we are still a colony of the Great British Empire. Eh wot?
“As they say the First Victims of any Revolution are those that aided it in the first place. You can therefore rest assured that if those gunfreaks DID take over they would be the first to be put against the nearest wall if they did not surrender firearms and PDQ at that because they are also the first to become DISILLUSIONED by the new reality”
Just think what might have happened if those American revolutionaries hadn’t been caught and executed by our benevolent British overlords. God save the Queen!
supposed quote of Burgoyne at Saratoga…”They’re peasants…with guns…how can peasants have guns?”……
Eat sht , puke and die Uncle Albert
Yeah, Albert the (deranged) subject . . . how’d that work out for old King George, eh??? Wasn’t it cool how all those insurrectionists were put up against the wall and shot?? Oh, that’s right, they weren’t – they were elected to Congress, became President (and established the precedent for a two term presidency).
Nice to know your knowledge of American history, world history, public policy, and firearms are all equal – after all zero equals zero. Sod off, swampy.
Yu make some wild assumptions with no fundation for them.
The very word “militia” means equipped, for certain,but well experienced in the use, capabilities, depo=loyment, etc of the weapons on hand, AND having worked together as a TEAM in training so as to make an effective defensive force.
As to the school staff having gone thoguh the FASTER Saves Lives programme, started in Ohio, they take a soild intensive week of all day training in every aspect of dealing with a nutcase on the loose inside a school facility. They are not wild cards went downtown and bought a pawnshop gun just so they can carry at school. Nope. High end proffessinals, they are. And VERY effective. By the ed of their week of training, innplaying their “war games” the traind teachers will get the better of the cops role=playing bad guys every time. Heynall that and NO COST to taxpayers? Whats not to like? Add in the pluperfect track record of NOT ONE gun related incident at AANY school in any district where this programme is in place. NOT ONE. WHY are politicians so stupid as to block this programme in many places? They tried getting this started in Broward County FLorida.. the local poohbahs voted it down. We don’t need no stinkin guns inour pweshus SKEWLZ no we don;t Less than a month later a nutcase former (he’d been expelled) student, violated a court order to never go onto that school property, brought in the new Black and Ugly rifle he bought because his FOUR felony level crimes were never reported to FBI/NICS, and murdered 17 of his former schoolmantes. Had FASTER been in place he’d have been shot down long before he nailed his second victim. The swelled ehads that ran school security” were fearful they’d lose control of FASTER came in. Yep, same coward cops who hunkered down OUTSIDE the building after exiting in fear for their own skin once the gunfire started. And the guy upstairs who WATCHED the known perp enter the campus in violation of the known court order, carrying a rand new CabelasRifle case that obviously had something sort of heavy in it, and that agoumbah did NOTHING.
THIS sort of stuff is why we have so many school murders. tjose tasked with “keeping us safe” (never was the job of government) are too busy building their own ilttle feifdoms they can’t be bothered to do what we PAY them too much to DO. Broward County Sheriffs are close to the head of that line. That punk had been known by BCS and FBI for years. FOUR felony level crimes, they preferred to get the $Mn54 prize for reducing “arrest rates” and did so by simply “forgetting” to record felony crimes, and not prosecute them. See? We’ve improved, no more felony school kids. Never mind they did nothing to lower the CRIME rates, violent felonies, fun stuff like that.
re Gubmunt trynna he’p.
Meanwhile Beto the clown shows up….catch it before it’s taken down. I though man with Walker was going to jump off stage…..
https://www.breitbart.com/border/2022/05/25/watch-beto-crashes-gov-abbotts-conference-on-texas-school-shooting/
…even CBS agreed that appeared to be staged….really inappropriate…sort of like starting a fight at a funeral…
I love this site. thank you for giving me inspiration.
New Zealand had the BALLS and COURAGE to ban ALL assault weapons after the Christchurch racist white man went in and murdered peaceful Muslim worshippers with an AR-15 assault weapon. PM Ardern got the country to come together and work together to give up everyone’s semi automatic rifles and pistols. Guess what? No mass shootings ever since, and probably never again – fingers crossed. We can do that too here. It just takes Republicans to have a heart and stop enjoying these tragedies.
do you really think they were all turned in?….
Boy, you are dumb as Baalam’s off ass. Since I know you’re not the “real” David “Camera” Hogg, I won’t suggest that you go to the Harvard registrar and demand your money back. You are a pathetic, brainless, Leftist/fascist propagandist, and you embarrass yourself every time you post. Follow the wisdom of Samuel Langhorne Clemens, “Keep your mouth shut and let others think you a fool; don’t open it and remove all doubt.”
Australia banned weapons after an event in 1996. Guess what? They’ve had quite a few mass shootings since then.
And New Zealand will, too. Just like European countries that ban guns – they still have mass shootings at a similar rate as the US.
Show me 1 shooting that didn’t have a human behind the gun, or a human who made a serious mistake in safety regarding accidental shooting. It would not make 1 bit of difference if semi-auto rifles are or are not banned.
” But mass shootings are uniquely American” A quick Google search will put the lie to that.
” But, AR’s are weapons of war or battle field weapons” So what military has adopted the AR 15 as their primary arm?
” But it’s the guns” So was the 9/11 attack some how gun related? Or the Boston Marathon bombing? Or the Atlanta Olympic Attack?
How about the fire works and fire bombing attacks on the Federal Court House in Portland?
Anyone notice that these mass shootings are usually planned in advance and are against poorly defended gun free locations?
Do any of those demanding we give up any of our semi auto firearms realize the same kind of horror could be easily inflicted with an 1880’s designed lever action carbine? Or a Pump shot gun? 1 of the first acknowledged mass shootings was committed with a couple bolt action rifles. Look up the Austin Texas clock tower shooting.
Nearly all of these shooters showed signs of being possibly unstable or a danger to themselves or others. Usually acknowledged after the fact.
Blame the politicians in both major parties for destroying the mental health system that had, to some extent helped keep some of the crazies off the streets. Yes, the old system had it’s abuses and problems. But could have been dealt with. Throwing pills and hoping for the best has not worked very well. Same with the Same with the low income/welfare/entitlement culture. Just throwing money at people in hopes they will become somehow responsible, productive adults has not worked out. The only people who benefit from either set of programs, mental health, or welfare etc. are the bureaucrats and politicians. The Education system has also contributed to the problem as well. In many school districts, it is not education but indoctrination. All the way from university down to grade school.
So, no, it is not the guns, or the magazines, or any other piece of hardware. It has always been and always will be a people and cultural problem.
Anyone else notice that these incidences seem to happen mostly around election time? Just in time to take our attention away from all the Democrats problems?
David Hogg: ” It just takes Republicans to have a heart and stop enjoying these tragedies.” What it takes is for Democratic puppets to quit lying and admit that their desires to disarm everyone is not the way to end violence. If guns are outlawed, criminals will still have them to attack peaceful citizens. Besides, IEDs, cars, knives, crow bars, etc. will kill you just as dead as any firearm.
While I appreciate your argument, you’re actually starting from a false premise. More careful data collection than the anti-gun crowd is willing to attempt found that the US is not the outlier they claim we are. Researchers working with Dr. John R. Lott found literally numerous incidents that the “America is uniquely violent” crowd overlooked:
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3671740
eliminate black-on-black and suicides and those stats change markedly…and shouldn’t schools be as well-protected as ballparks?
Criminals don’t obey the laws, no matter if it’s guns, drugs or physical harm to others! Get armed and familiar with how to use it!!!
Guns stop more crimes than cause them!!! 500,000 to 2.5 million times a year! Facts matter!
Guns are the tool to eradicate our society of this scourge of cowards that use gun safe zones to do evil! Thank Joe Biden for that !