Will Gun Control Advocates Please STFU About Declining Gun Ownership?

1. Requiring a firearm owner’s ID card is so, so wrong. Illinois is making progress, but still. Damn.

   • It could be a LOT LOT worse. Illinois is barley even in the top 10 worst states for gun owners these days.
     It looks like California, Mass, Maryland, New York, New Jersey and Conn. are all in a race to the bottom. Even with a democratic majority in the state legislature we defeated all major gun control efforts this year and passed an allright CC law in Illinois. Unlike Colorado.

     • To be fair to Colorado, though, we did recall 2 of the staunch anti-gun senators, which if the vote on the mag ban happened today, would go from 20-15 to 18-17, except there have been 3-4 democrats who voted for the bill who said they didn’t realize the impact of the bill (and the background check bill) when they voted yes on it, and said they would vote no on it if they had to do it again…Take that with a grain of salt, since these are politicians…

       • “3-4 democrats who voted for the bill who said they didn’t realize the impact of the bill”

         Then why the hell did they vote on it?

       • “Then why the hell did they vote on it?”

         Because their political party bosses told them to. Basically, you do this or we’ll primary you and end your political career.

   • And some people wonder why voter ID laws set activists off.

     • Not anywhere close to the same thing dude.

       Advocates of voter ID simply want people to have to show a form of government ID, like a driver’s license to prove who they are before they vote. It’s so people don’t vote five or six times or vote in other people’s names. Everyone in every state in the country has to do at least as much when they buy a gun from an FFL. Plus submit to a federal background check.

       The FOID card is above and beyond. You have to pay an additional fee to the state and they run ANOTHER background check to see if they will grant you permission to hold, touch, possess, or buy a gun or ammo.

       With voter ID laws no one has to pay a fee or pass a background check or otherwise get permission from the state to exercise their constitutional rights.

   • It feels creepy and it is chilling to me, the Firearms Owners ID card..
     I can only cheer the gun rights crowd in Illinois and support them as much as I can, but I will do everything I can to never set foot in Illinois again. Not unless the stupid laws are changed or amended to give gun owners the freedom to exercise their natural rights.

   • The whole concept of a FOID is wrong and criminal by those that establish and come up with such shit.

2. Or, if ever asked in a survey, in any form, the answer is “No”. Sorry, they don’t need to know. Otherwise you end up on some idiots iPhone app map…or worse.

   • But this is the Land of Lincoln the Power Hungry. No need to ask when the government has databases on everywhere.

3. But what is the rate? You have to ‘control for population growth’ 😉

   • That would be interesting considering Chicago is experiencing a population decrease right now.

     • Do you mean people are fleeing Chicago or are you making a joke about their absurd murder rate?

       • Whoops! Good point. People are leaving. They are shuttering schools due to a lack of students. The teachers, of course, are protesting the school shutdowns despite the lack of actual students to teach.

   • Accounting for population increase, the number of IL residents with FOID cards increased by about 2% from 2010 to now (based on estimated 2012 population from Wikipedia).

4. As much as I may agree with the sentiment expressed, raw absolute numbers don’t always tell the whole story. We always bemoan the GC side for using absolutes when percentages show a different story, as such, we shouldn’t ignore percentages when they don’t favour our arguments.

   • Not sure about population increase, but here’s what I gathered:

     From 2010 to 2011: gun FOID cards increased by 5.97%.
     From 2011 to 2012: roughly 5.8%
     From last December to September 6th: 10.6%

     I highly doubt Illinois’ population is even increasing by 6%, let alone more than 10%. Running those numbers tells quite a bit, I’m sure you’d agree.

     • Just tried finding data on the population for Illinois from the census web site. hahahahaha
       Some idiot forgot to leave the mainframe on when they left for their “forced” vacation.

       • Yea… They’re arbitrarily shutting down all the sites that have Geewiz info. A coworker can’t finish his Master’s course because he can’t access the NASA statistics he needs for a month-long project. These guys are ridiculous.

       • Nic – that’s the entire point. They aren’t shutting down the EXPENSIVE things, they’re shutting down things that will annoy / hurt Americans to try and generate hate for Republicans despite Republicans in the House passing FIVE resolutions and the Democrats in the Senate refusing to even look at any of them.

5. The grabbers misrepresent and lie about everything else concerning guns for the low information seeple to absorb; why should skyrocketing gun sales and ownership be any different?

   • This ^^.

6. They still sight the Kellerman “43 to 1” false argument… why would they stop saying this? It’s not like the media is going to actually challenge the validity of the statement, no matter how false.

7. I say when kids are born they should be given a gun. It our god dam right to have guns.
   I think everybody should have two guns.
   I want a gun so big I can drive it!
   You shoot me I shoot you with a bigger gun

   • But why would I shoot you? You haven’t given me any cause.

     If you’re trying to do violence to me or my family, then let’s have at it. And if I did my job right in that situation, then no, you would not in turn shoot me with a “bigger gun.”

     Or were you not actually serious?

     • Looks like a troll comment to me.

       • One of the MDA crowd I’ll bet.

       • Yeah, definitely a troll. Sometimes it’s fun to answer them straight-up. I wondered if I could rattle his cage a bit, but apparently this was just a trolling drive-by.

8. I’ll be conservative. I only want guns in the rooms of my house that have a light.

   • And doors, they should have doors, too.

     • The rooms or the guns? Only gun I know with a door on it is the AR-15 and sometimes they are too cumbersome and hard to conceal.

   • I’ll be even more conservative I want a gun for every room in my house that has a title (living room kitchen yea yall get it) and an old WWII tank in the driveway. Preferrably a German one probably a King Tiger.

     • The King Tiger was a rolling brick and a bitch to maintain. Except for the outrageously thick armor and the 88 main gun they weren’t all that mucking fuch. The Russian T-32 with a decent sight for the main gun would be a better home defense weapon. 😉

       • Did you mean T-34 maybe?

9. If they want evidence, I’ll just point to the absolutely empty firearms supply chain for the first half of 2013. People were even buying Kel-Tec guns and Thermold magazines, which to me said that Fimbulwinter was nigh.

   • I bought some Thermolds back in May…
     Dark days.

10. We have goofy FOIDs, but we have no AWB, or anything too retarded.

    We can now have SBRs with a C&R licence

    We just can’t have suppressors.

    I’d rather live here than Cali, that’s for sure.

11. After the 2nd Amendment, he first gun laws be inflicted on the American public were the Jim Crow Laws. These laws were designed to disarm the victims of the KKK.

    So the strongest gun laws now are found in the States and Cities where Unions are the strongest. What does that tell you????

    Can you say “SEIU Union Thugs”?

    .

12. What rocket scientist decided they needed a disclaimer that the FOID card “does not permit the bearer to UNLAWFULLY carry or use firearms”? That amounts to saying “this card allows you to do only what you’re allowed to do”. If something is permitted, that means it isn’t unlawful.

    • I think it was a rocket surgeon or inflight missile repairman.

    • Illinois politicians trying to get a Contempt Citation, no doubt.

13. There’s more of my musing on this in other posts but in just that last month or so I’ve seen so many non-traditional people tooling up for the first time that even I’m shocked.

    A friend who is a CCW permit training and firearms instructor has an association with an LGS. He invited me to one of their Friday Night Madness Parties. They stay open till 1:00AM, serve pizza and sodas free of charge, and sell guns at an astounding rate. Many are first time buyers, or buying a concealment handgun for the first time. Very many if not most of the first time buyers are women. Most sign up on the spot for CCW permit classes and range time with firearms instruction.

    Yesterday I went to the LGS’s range with my friend. All day we received first time owners/shooters, most fresh from his last CCW class. These are people so new to guns that one must begin with a safety refresher then move on to how to load the pistol they’ve purchased. My friend reports that most, when they return for their second range instruction will be carrying their pistols on them rather than in the box it came it like they did for their first session.

    Further more, these new shooters, just now learning how to load and fire their weapons, are clamoring for tactical/practical training even though they have yet to even get a toe-hold on the fundamentals. Yesterday it was two middle aged non-descript women, a senior male and a 21 year with his first gun ever.

    The women paid in advance for their next range/instruction session and though I was only there helping out, one attempted to hire me privately to teach her advance courses in the tactical use of a pistol because the RSO/Instructor declined until she had MUCH more work with fundamentals. I also declined but here are two, apparently typical middle aged women shelling out hundreds, even thousands of dollars and putting in the time and effort to become competent shooters. They’re buying hundreds of rounds of ammo for a range session and constantly asking concealment questions, buying up multiple holsters to cover every conceivable outfit they own.

    Not only does it seem from my experience that first time gun owners are on the increase, shockingly, at least to me, they seem very serious about getting the gear and training they need to rapidly achieve competency.

    I think the media/disarmament campaigns are having the exact opposite effect they were intended to have.

    My take away line of the day was when one of the women said she couldn’t wait to bring the ladies auxiliary from her church to the range and asked about a group discount!

    These are interesting times for the POTG.

    • Wow: holsters for every conceivable outfit they own. Time to buy stock in holster companies. This could be bigger than ladies shoes.

      • And thermoplastic acrylic-polyvinyl chloride material….aka Kydex

    • Good to hear. Will these people vote in favor of their newly discovered 2A rights?

14. Based on the questions brought up here as whether that was a proportional increase:

    Year — Population — FOIDs — Percent
    2010 –12,843,200 — 1,316,508 — 10.2506229
    2011 –12,869,300 — 1,395,114 — 10.84063624
    2012 –12,875,300 — 1,476,408 — 11.46697941
    2013 –12,897,625 — 1,633,039 — 12.66154815

    • Excellent work Julian….

      So what you are saying is that the real story is the exact polar opposite of what being reported by the media. I’m sure they will publish a correction on the front page above the fold as soon as they catch their error.

15. Even if firearm ownership were on the decline, why would it matter? It doesn’t matter if there’s only one guy living in a trailer in Idaho who owns guns; the right still exists and must be protected.

    • It’s part of their meme that times have changed and the right is obsolete. They really believe this, so a decline in ownership would simply be evidence that it’s true.

      • Right, never forget that the BoR is outdated and not needed in todays modern society…except for the precious 1st amd…

        • And you have to wonder how these same folks would react if a large number of people showed up open carrying Revolutionary war era muzzle loaders. That is what the Second Amendment allows, isn’t it?

16. You realize that given their population, Illinois still only has a (legal) gun ownership rate of about 12.5%, right?

    Also, FOID’s should be referred to as FOAD’s since that is what the government is telling you by making you get a permit to exercise your rights.

    • Considering the number of persons in the population that are under the age of 21, or are felons (likely a very large number) or otherwise not allowed to possess firearms, the true rate is probably better than 25%.

      Here’s a question for you. Does every member of a family over the age of 21 need to have a a FOID if one member of the family has a FOID? If not, then the percentage of households with a firearm could easily exceed 50%.

      The point is, that without all the numbers and facts, they (and we) are just guessing.

17. Ironically, FOID applications/issuances are not necessarily a good representation of actual owners in Illinois. The inappropriately-named Firearm Owner’s Identification is required to purchase, own, or transport firearms or ammunition. Yes, you have to have it on you to buy ammo, so if you happen to see a box of .22 at Walmart and you left it at home, no dice.
    Because of laws like that, many local shops and ranges also implement unnecessarily strict FOID-related policies. Some ranges only allow one or two non-FOID bearing guests per fully licensed shooter. Some allow none. One shop I went to would not even take guns out of the case to show me because I left my FOID at home. It is virtually universal that they will require a FOID to use the range on your own or rent a firearm.
    Thanks to infringements such as this on our natural rights, I have encouraged others who may want to shoot at some point, or sometime in the distant future actually own a gun, to put in their applications ASAP. My brother had a FOID for years, and went shooting with me, before ever owning a gun. Which I bought for him. In a private sale. So even though he’s got a FOID, he’s never bought a gun. As is the case with my girlfriend. I don’t want her to have a hard time dealing with my guns and ammo should anything happen to me, so I made sure she has her own FOID, even though we have no plans to get her a gun all her own.
    I suspect that a lot of new FOID applications out there are a just-in-case sort of thing; when do they really do need a gun, they only have to wait the state-obliged 1 day (long guns) or 3 days (handguns) before bringing it home. Otherwise you may be stuck with a 6-month wait (like my girlfriend and myself; both due to clerical errors which we had to call in to the state police to inquire why the application was so far behind).
    And on a lighter, sadder note, a short anecdote: one day I was on my way home from the burbs, and stopped at local Walmart to see about some ammo. The girl behind the sporting counter could not make the sale; her FOID was expired. She called for another associate, and was surprised when [let’s call her Mary] showed up. “But I radioed for [John]. I didn’t know you had your FOID, [Mary].” “Oh, I don’t,” said Mary. “I don’t need one; I live in Wisconsin.” Illinois politics at its finest.

18. Article 18 chapter 926 of the us code1968 gun owners protection act,Prohibits the United States, it’s provinces ,and states from firearm registration, in these United States.PERIOD.Go look it up.Gun registration in these United States is Illegal and against Federal Law. City ,county ,state ordinances do not supersede Federal Law as the State of Illinois just found out,as they got their asses handed to them .All gun restrictive laws they had illegally imposed have been repealed as they went against the 2nd Amendment.It’s beautiful ,like watching the wicked witch of the north shrivel up as Dorthy
    Pours water on her.

19. SO what happens when the FOID card expires? Do they come and confiscate your firearms?

    • Don’t worry, they will send a well trained militarized unit to make sure you are safe.

    • The inappropriately-named FOID does not indicate ownership of a gun. I know people who have a FOID and own no weapons.

      • What is your point? It won’t stop them from coming to get the FOID and while they are there tossing the house looking for “illegally” owned weapons.

        • My point is that the FOID is not particularly useful information for anyone to determine who does or does not own a weapon, and certainly isn’t justifiable cause for a warrantless search. Just because my girlfriend’s FOID expires does not give anyone the right to search our house for my weapons.
          Should they decide to do anything but knock on the door and ask for an expired/revoked card, it’s an easy lawsuit to win.

          • You are making my case. It hasn’t stopped LEO under Moon Beam from doing something similar in California. They haven’t been using warrants, just bully tactics and tricks. Up until now anyway. My point is the FOID is totally against the 2nd A in principle and spirit and shouldn’t exist anyway. Being a law abiding American citizen is our FOID card.

20. I theorize that the winning of McDonald v Chicago in 2010 boosted these numbers as many Chicagoans (& suburbs) now had a reasonable chance of legally possessing firearms.

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