Over the last few weeks there has been an increased demand from gun control activists that we should be using the terrorist watchlist to restrict the ability for people to purchase firearms. I’ve already gone over why this is an incredibly troubling concept not only from a constitutional rights point of view but also a practical one, but despite the blatant 5th Amendment issues involved in restricting the Constitutional rights of Americans without any due process whatsoever President Obama called for using that list as a reason to deny people access to firearms in a live interview with CBS News.
As a reminder, the “terrorist watchlist” is a secret list where potential and suspected terrorists are identified. Government reports in the past have indicated that around 30% of the entries in that list may be inaccurate. There have been multiple cases in the past of innocent people finding themselves on the list and having their lives ruined, and thanks to the secrecy involved it is nearly impossible to get your name removed.
The logic in use here is backwards from the American ideal. Instead of “innocent until proven guilty,” those who find themselves on the list (sometimes resulting from outright lies, according to some reports) are forced to prove that they aren’t terrorists before their rights are restored.
SURPRISE!!!!! and that completes todays attack on the 2A
The day’s not over yet!
And I’m sure that posting on sites like this will get one added to said watch list when it’s all said and done.
Terrorist, Patriot, all relative, depending on which side you’re on. History books are written by the victor and all that.
See, I’ve always thought it was pretty easy to tell because of who focuses attacks against civilians vs military. If the Founders had locked people in churches and burned them to the ground, for example, maybe the terrorist label would make sense.
“…shall not be infringed.” This is NOT a difficult concept.
It’s not difficult, just inconvenient.
Something as abstract as a “concept”, is way too difficult for anyone simple enough to fall for progressivism.
Second Amendment, Fourth Amendment…hell, let’s chuck in the First and Fifth, too. Who needs all these rights anyway, right? The government will provide for all of us like a benevolent master…
I suspect nobody on the Syrian refugee list will make onto the ‘Secret “Terrorist Watchlist” ‘
They will. Once the realize Obamas America is no improvement on Assad’s Syria, and gets a bit bummed out about it.
Our imperial alarmist at work to get his way by hook or by crook, with heavy emphasis on the latter.
Remember when the Left was up in arms (no pun intended) about the very existence of the terrorist watch list when Bush was in office? Remember how they called it a racist Republican plot to deny the Constitutional rights of brown-skinned people?
Now, all of a sudden, it’s a highly accurate and perfectly fair method of ascertaining who is too dangerous to own a gun?
Ted Kennedy was on the no-fly list. Unfortunately, being on the list did not stop him from driving a car. The result was tragic.
Oh, be nice. His driving problems predated the no-fly list by 30 years. Still, even today, his cars have killed more people than my guns.
“Still, even today, his cars have killed more people than my guns.”
I always want to ask people who say this if they own any old decommissioned military rifles. Onnacounta I’m NOT sure my Mosin Nagant never killed anyone… it probably didn’t, but who knows?
Nah, every gun I currently own, I bought new. Once, I had a Python which was used, because I couldn’t find a new one, otherwise no.
Interview in question: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-responds-to-san-bernardino-shooting/
From the 4th paragraph:
“Those include “common sense gun safety laws” and “stronger background checks,” as well as barring people on the no-fly list from buying firearms, the president said.”
isnt there talk about making passports necessary for interstate flights?
And for crossing the boundary between your assigned neighborhood, and some other. You must always be prepared to show papers and document your need.
I guess one way of combat the fear of terrorism, is to make life in America so incredibly miserable, that the Caliphate no longer sounds all that bad anymore.
Well, the speed with which Obama jumped on the terrorist watch list thing means that they are already pretty sure is was Islamic terrorism and not a drug cartel hit.
I think they just want to get their gun control message out before the news is broken that these were foreign nationals or homegrown terrorists using firearms smuggled across the border. There’s still time to blame Bob’s Gun Shop and the NRA before everyone learns this was entirely out of the reach of domestic laws.
You’d think if they wanted to pass a law that would prevent this sort of thing, they’d simply make murder and attempted murder illegal and nip it off at the bud.
I read it that way. If he is suggesting specific policies while he reaches for the bloody shirt, I’m thinking he means to do it by executive action and make people take him to court.
I’m not going to take him to court, I’m going to ignore him, as everybody else should.
If he’s not careful, he’s gonna get the whole dang watch list struck down by the courts in the first round. They’ve only been able to use it this long since there aren’t any consequences that can be fought in court, for the most part. Attack an enumerated right so directly, and even Ginsburg will have a hard time covering for this stupidity.
The administration has got to be in full-on spin mode in case these end up being Fast & Furious weapons.
True, and it’s also interesting that they were NOT on the terrorism watch list, even after 10 years of the unconstitutional NSA spying, these actual killers were completely off the radar while a million citizens are persecuted for political reasons.
We’re surprised a fascist demagogue and his cult of brainless worshippers is encouraging perhaps the most anti-American power grab in this nation’s history? Hey, it would fulfill his promise of fundamentally changing America…into a fascist tyranny. If this happens and it stands up to law, we might as well take down the flag, because this won’t be America anymore.
Although, it might finally shake some people from their stupor when suddenly thousands of innocent people fail a NICS check and they’re told that the government’s little black book has taken away their Constitutional rights.
I’d like to think that there’s no way this could stand up to a lawful review. Taking away rights with no due process and a secret list? In America? But, then again, this is post-Progressive America, where we might as well have surrendered in WW2.
Not that we weren’t effectively a Fascist tyranny during WWII, ourselves; internment camps, arrests of reporters for ‘un-American activities,’ a full-on fascist Command Economy based around supporting the military –about the only thing we did different from the pre-war Germans was realizing the final destination and stopping before going even further, post-war.
Since liberals are so quick to compare gun owners as terrorists, it’s not sounding very good. I guess if your “pro life” some consider you one as well.
There seems to be recent precedent for conjoining “pro-life” with “terrorist”. Plus, an extremist interfering in business which does not concern him should always raise alarms.
Maybe TTAG should have a different title for news when Obama is doing his gun control rant. Somehow “BREAKING” doesn’t seem appropriate.
Broken? As in a record.
let me guess, anyone with “extreme beliefs” about 2A rights will be put on watch.
Beliefs extreme enough to act on them by buying a gun, is surely a one way ticket to being listed. Unless you’re more equal, of course. Then you “need” a gun.
“BREKAING?” I think you need to a new editor.
Spell check won’t catch everything, but it should have caught that.
Note to TTAG contributors: Quality is more important than speed. Especially when our current POTUS makes a speech attempting to capitalize on tragedy for his political agenda, which is not exactly news.
Some spell checks don’t work in title fields. Not sure why. The spelling and grammar here is better than the other gun blogs I frequent! Not too shabby for a bunch of knuckle draggers and mouth breathing oafs, really 😛
What do you have against brekaing?
Isn’t that a form of dance?
I guess it’s not so easy to edit. 😀 Anyway, not surprised by the presidents actions. We live in dangerous times.
Lets go through history and look at how we typically remember things like the terror watch list in history; Black Codes, the Sedition act and Mccarthyism come to mind.
I say take “guns” and replace them with virtually any principle in the bill of rights such as “due process,” “freedom of religion,” “freedom of speech” or “right to a trial by a jury of your peers” among others.”
Those clown shoes are getting pretty worn lately, Mr. Obama. Maybe you should sit down and let the grown-ups take care of things for a while.
It is guaranted civil war if he tries to executive action this.
Let’s see…..
1. Declare every gun owner is a potential terrorist (the list does not require a conclusion, only a suspicion)
2. Have the ATF demand sales records from every FFL in two or three major cities
3. Place the names of all owners reported to the ATF on the terrorist watchlist
4. Repeat; new city.
The terror watch list is secret, not available to the public. Your first indication you are on the list might be failure of background check. Or denial of airline ticket purchase. Or request from the FBI for an interview.
It can all happen so easily, and done right will not generate an armed response because it will happen to individuals, not to the entire rolls of a constitutional militia (i.e. everyperson). Word will spread, but without actual proof those selected are not indeed terrorists, the rest of the POTG will be unalarmed.
This moron, supposedly, is a constitutional scholar and professor? Nowhere except some backwoods school where a semester costs less than $100, right? WTF do you mean, Harvard? Wait! What color is he, maybe we can figure out how this happened.
Just because you study something doesn’t mean you agree with it.
Let no crisis go to waste, GunGrabberInChief…
This would not be bad, except Obama and Holder publicly said White Christian Vetrans who support the Second Amendmendment should all be on the list.
That’s who he really means should not be allowed to own firearms.
Don’t stop the non white criminals.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/30/benghazi-commission-obama-admin-gun-running-scheme-armed-islamic-state/
All those on said “Terrorists Watchlist” will be white males who ….. ‘cling to their Bibles and guns’,
The list won’t contain a single Muslim who … ‘clings to their Quran and bombs’.
I’m not surprised by this, as he signed a law that stripped Due Process rights from Americans abroad. Thankfully the Supreme Court overturned it. But when you are sworn in to office, don’t you take an oath to protect the Constitution? If true, then wouldn’t this be grounds for impeachment?